New member wants honest answers

[vtxbrit]

Hello Morini riders,
At present I have a march 2005 Benelli TNT and a march 2007 Benelli TNT Sport the difference between the bikes is unbelievable, I have 16,000 miles on the 05 and 5,600miles on the 07.
the 05 engine I believe was manufactured by moto Morini for Benelli, where as the new 07 engine is made in house (although Benelli is now Chinese owned) I have had major problems on the 05 bike with overheating, refusing to start when hot (hot starting), starter motor and batteries…….but love the bike so much that I persevered.
When the sport came out with assurances that all problems had been fixed I had to have one (wife didn’t see it quite like me though) so far it has been superb…….now here’s my question I rode the Morini veloce last September and fell in love with it just like my TNT (dam) I arranged a deal with a local dealer… then read a bad report (the nurburgring test last year where the BMW came 1st Benelli 2nd and veloce overheated and failed to finish) also after looking at this forum I saw there was cold start issues, ECU issues and a overheating problem……I can’t go through the grief I had with the Morini engine Benelli……….. So can any of you guys (or girls) be honest and tell me if the 1200 engine is still plagued with problems or whether it is now safe to go into the water.
thanks in advance vtxbrit

[Sander]

Hi vtxbrit,

I myself own a early 2006 model Corsaro and have never had any troubles with heat. There where some minor starting troubles, but with the latest updates they are gone. The first 24000km I have used the original battery that is later replaced by a bigger model. (mine should also have been replaced earlier under guarantee, but is replaced during a full service at the factory)

Early engines like mine had some issues with the flatness of the engine cover, but these are replaced under guarantee, and new models don't suffer from it (as far as i know).

A problem that i have heard of with the Veloce, is that the radiator was fitted with the wrong cap in a few bikes. It opened at a too low pressure. Maybe this was the cause for the overheating in that test?

Since September, the fectory has been working hard on all quality issues, and the 2008 models will be better.

Sander

[mms]

I have a late 2006 Corsaro with around 6,000 miles, and the bike had the 'upgrade kit' of bigger battery, new ECU, exhaust mounts, intake deflector etc fitted in June of last year.

I really like the way this bike goes on the road, in particular the grunty engine and the all round comfort (see my reply to Trevor's post on Nov. 25) However, to give some feedback on your queries:

Do I think the Corsaro is basically a good bike? - Yes
Do I think the detail design and quality control is good? - No

My bike may not be one of the latest examples, but I think there are aspects of this bike that are still not properly sorted, and the same faults seem to crop up on even recent press tests/reports.

The biggest single issue is probably the fuelling, although in fairness to Morini a lot of other manufacturers also struggle with the ECU mapping to meet Euro3 emission restrictions. I am now on ECU mapping version 4, and still have problems with surge/shunt problems around town and between 60 and 80mph, although less so than originally. This may sound like a relatively trivial matter, but I notice there is now quite a lot of play in the rear hub cush rubbers and, despite careful maintenance, the chain is pretty shagged after only 6k. Will this poor running eventually give gearbox problems?
Even now, I still have the odd occasion where the bike will not start. Sometimes from cold at the house, where I have to go back in for a cup of coffee and then try later, or also sometimes when hot e.g. after refuelling. Incidentally, I was unable to use the 'racing' ECU that came with the Termis I fitted. Wouldn't start at all from cold, and then was impossible to use around town. I am told that it needs set up with changes to the Throttle Position Sensors, but my dealer doesn't have the correct software.

The headlights let in water, which then mist up when the lights are on, and the revised tank mounts were missing from the upgrade kit which allows the plastic tank to rub and wear against the frame top tubes. These problems, together with a noisy water pump impellor which is supposed to be warranty change, have been notified to my dealer since July 07 without any resolution.

During my holiday trip to France in September, the bike developed an oil leak from the LHS crankcase which means I have to stop and mop up the oil every 50 miles or it runs back onto the rear tire. Again, no action yet from the dealer or importer.

Then 3 weeks ago, the LCD part of the clocks stopped working so I am without speedo, mileometer, temp. gauge etc.

When the weather cleared earlier today and I wanted to go out for a run, I chose my other more reliable bike instead - a 35 year old Norton Commando!

My dealer tells me that there is a problem with Three Cross not being the importers any more, but whether this is the truth or just the usual dealer bullshit, I have no idea.
I will contact 3X directly this week to see if they can help.
Failing that - my next move may well be to jump on a cheap flight and turn up at the Morini factory to get a straight answer.

I can forgive the new Morini venture a lot of 'start-up' faults, and I am a long-time Morini fan, but poor dealer back-up when faults arise will just put them out of business.

To summarise - I hope the latest models are better, but you are probably right to be cautious.

Michael

[vtxbrit]

Michael,
Thanks for being so honest I know how hard it is to admit that your pride and joy is in fact far from being perfect (been there)…………. whilst I like my bikes to have some character and occasionally misbehave what I don’t what is a bike with a bad attitude.
So I think I’ll wait a little longer and see how things pan out, shame because I love the power and feel of the veloce and think it is almost as pretty as my TNT……..the Morini will stay on my wish list and I’ll keep dropping in to the forum.
Ps. Without prejudice Reddog mc (surrey based Morini /Benelli/MV dealers) tell me that double cross (oops I mean three cross) are still the main UK importers however they lost Benelli a couple of years ago and I believe have just lost MV and seem to have minimal Morini stock at present……… so here’s hoping.
Vtxbrit

[V-Fun]

vtxbrit,

Your last post makes 'interesting' reading and I have sympathy with any rider who's new, or newly acquired bike fails to meet expectations:

It seems that even in modern times we bikers do not get the same levels of back-up from manufacturer's that we can expect as car drivers.

Maybe it is a numbers game?

However I do take issue with your comments on 'Three Cross Motorcycles'
and whoever you are quoting has not got their facts straight:

'3X' did not 'loose' either the 'Benelli' or 'MV' franchises - In both cases the dealer chose to give them-up.

In the case of 'Benelli' 3X took a huge gamble taking on the import of these bikes and it did not pay-off.
The pre-take over company simply did not pay its debts or honour compensation for hundreds of hours of warranty work and were costing 3X a considerable amount of money.

MV? 3X championed this brand, since its launch in c.2000 with the F4750.
They still sell a considerable number of MV machines and have a strong relationship with the factory.

What we, as buyers/riders don't see is that to be 'the importer' involves providing the press fleet,funding trade stands, attending shows, marketing and taking the flack for anything relating to that brand.

3X have 'done their stint' with MV (for c. 8 years) and placed the brand in a strong position.
They are still an MV dealer and have new stock arriving - So they cannot be that out of favour.

Morini? There is no truth that 3X have dropped the brand, are backing-out or reducing their physical stock.
All new models are on the way and the owner: Keith Davies has nothing but praise for Moto-Morini and the product.
Almost above any other brand and his enthusiasm for MM is infectious.

I am not employed by 3X but would like to say that without the company's support of the Italian MC industry, since the early 1980's; many brands/models would never have even reached the UK - Other than as novelty imports.

At least on this forum let's give the company some credit for their support of MM? ''

Regards
[color=red]Stephen[/color]

[mms]

Stephen,

Interesting post, and your point is well made.

Your car driver comment is worth expanding on.
My modern (company) cars are usually very reliable, but I would expect any fault to be rectified within the week. This is totally at odds with my experiences in running old Alfas and Lancias, which were a total nightmare as far as reliability went (mostly electrics and RUST), but I loved the bloody things and was prepared to forgive them nearly anything. What made this all bearable was the back-up provided by specialist parts dealers, repair shops and Owners Clubs.

Likewise with bikes, I have owned Ducatis and Moto Guzzis on and off since the late 70s and always put any difficulties down to them being just part of the 'experience' and would not have had it any other way.
My wife currently has a Morini 3 1/2 Strada bought from the good people at North Leicester Motorcycles. As an example of the sort of service which can often be found at 'specialist' dealers, whilst on holiday in France last year with both Morinis (Strada and Corsaro) her bike developed a fault with the alternator. After some very helpful diagnosis over the phone by Chris Mayhew, he drove to the airport, handed over the replacement alternator and puller to DHL, and we had the parts fitted and working by lunchtime the next day - in the middle of France! Who could ask for more?

But my current problems with the Corsaro are very frustrating, and I freely admit to having a 'sense of humour failure'.
I have a bike sitting in the garage that I cannot use, and which I have not been able to get help with since last September. If this was an old bike then I would probably have tried to deal with the issues myself, with assistance from various specialist dealers, but it is not - and I am in any case prevented by warranty restrictions and 'black box' technology from attempting this.

My only route has been through my local dealer, and whether the 'problem' has been with the factory, 3X or this dealer, all I can tell you is I still have a bike that I can't use.

I think you are right, however, that these are not 'mass market' products and we have to try and make allowances for that in our expectations.

I am also heartened by your note that Keith Davies is, above all else, an enthusiast for the marque, and I sincerely look forward to being able to submit a post in the next few weeks which confirms my Corsaro is alive and well again!

Michael

[Mackia]

Michael,
I have been on the " Corsaro vs Veloce " thread and I am interested in the specifics and history of your problems ie what year is your bike? What mileage etc and what is going wrong? I agree that these are low volume motorcycles, but they are high Dollar/ Pound/ Euro for what you get. The woes seem to be collectively regarding electronics from what I can see and the mechanical package is good with little owner complaint. Regards,
Ian

[trevor]

Hi all
First of all, thanks for the thread on this subject. As a interested on looker looking at buying a new bike this justifies my caution to move forward. The issues with these bikes are the same as Ducati’s I’ve had over the years,

Is it part of the cost of buying this design bike (low volume) or should we expect more in this day & age of computers, ecu’s and modern components, to me the amount of money we now pay for a bike, on road duty’s, spare parts and maintenance and so on I think I’m owned more by the manufacture and to a lesser amount the dealer/importer.

The new Ducati Mult (the other bike I was looking at) has issues with the fuel gauge, seat, suspension and other items that have gone on for a long time and still no real fix, the jap bikes no real issues or they are fixed ASAP so why do we take it from Italian bike manufactures, are they that good to ride or are we just bull shitting ourselves?

I’m trying to learn from the passed mistakes but passion is strong for the fine things in life, and that costs more in many ways……..

Thanks for the info

[V-Fun]

[quote="mms"]Stephen,

Interesting post, and your point is well made.

Hi Michael,
Thank you for a mature and considered response and I have every sympathy, in respect of the problems with your bike.

After all we are talking an outlay of thousands and not a few hundred.
I have never been happy with the 'customer does the R&D' approach to new bikes.

In the 80's Honda learned a tough lesson by taking this approach.

A company the size of MM won't recover so well from negative press and does not have the range of bikes to put it down to one or two 'rogue' models.

At the end of the day: The dealer is the public face of the manufacturer and has to accept that.

I want these bikes to succeed and not become value-less curios, in couple of years time.

I hope 3X and MM get your issues resolved and swiftly.

Good luck with your bike and I hope you can soon post a 'good news' item
on its return to glory and yours to being a happy rider.


Regards
Stephen R.

[vtxbrit]

V- Fun, I thank you for your reply and agree with a lot of your sentiments, I also can appreciate how Chinese whispers in the biking fraternity can get out of control and perhaps 3x are victims of the above.
I feel sorry for most of the UK Italian bike dealers, it is not an easy life for them they all have great staying power………… however without going in depth into my experiences I can only tell you that when my 05 Benelli broke down after less than 800miles from new (with numerous minor faults and 2 biggy’s) I was virtually told “hard luck we can’t helpâ€￾………and the blame was put fully on 3 x’s shoulders.
I know they were allegedly stitched up when Benelli ceased trading, and felt deservedly bitter about the whole affair, but the fact is I was sold a £9,000 bike with a 2 year warranty from the main importers who allegedly at the time of sale knew the factory could not honour the warranty.
It was a local dealer who after much letter writing from myself personally decided to help me without being able to recoup costs from the main dealer or the factory.
I agree with members comments concerning exclusivity and low volume production numbers that’s one of the reasons I want to be a morini owner…….and I am more than aware that low production numbers with a low selling cost will always spells trouble, but I think nearly £10,000 for a low volume production bike is enough money for said manufacture to get it right, but more importantly offer and implement the service expected for a high cost machine.
Finally, I apologies for any comments on any previous forum replies that may have seemed prejudice.
The facts as it stands with me at present are………
1) I want to be a morini veloce owner,
2) The service I have received from the new Benelli importers and my local dealer concerning my Benelli’s has so far been superb.
all the Best,
vtxbrit

[V-Fun]

Vtxbrit,
Thanks for the reply:

I think you are taking a perfectly reasonable view of things and are naturally
still smarting after your experiences with the Benelli.

There are thousands of bikers out there who have never spent £9k on a bike
and I am one of them (having nearly always bought used).

£9k is the upper reaches of the Japanese bike market and it gets you a fully sorted and utterly reliable bike - Albeit without the kudos of the Italian marques.

We Italian bike lovers often seem to 'suffer for our art' and if you are like anything like me: I need to be burned (or singed!) a few times before I learn my lesson.

Personally I think MM have quite a different attitude to 'Benelli' (Pre QJ take-over) who I felt were a bunch of playboys.

Like you; I am on the Benelli Forum and still own a 'Tornado RS'.

The RS has had no recalls and so far has been totally trustworthy - Unlike the earlier Tre and TnT models. So even they can get it right.

Morini have started from a stronger position and there is every belief that the bikes will go from strength to strength.

I am waiting for the new 'Gran Passo' before choosing a model - But love both the 'veloce' and standard corsaro.

The faced-lifted 9 1/2 is looking damn good too...

Good luck with choosing a bike and sorry if my last e-mail appeared to be a bit of a lecture.

Regards
Stephen R

[AlainBE]

And I was sorry to do so, but after what I went through I was fed up. I wanted to share my experience with you but before I start I must admit my Corsaro was the most fun bike I've ever owned. And I really mean it: fantastic engine, excellent road behaviour, a dream bike.

I got mine in early 2006, one of the first bikes imported in Belgium by MSA International. I loved it straight away even if at that time I experienced warm start up problem (when everybody else was experiencing cold start problem). My dealer had a major problem with the importer MSA so I took my bike directly to them for the upgrade (ECU, battery etc). No complain at the time, my dealer (and very good friend of mine) couldn't sort his problem with the importer so he advised me to have my maintenance done somewhere else. I found a nice store, not far from where I live and took my bike in for the 5.000 kms maintenance. He managed to tune the bike properly and I had no more warm start problem afterwards. He was astonished that the upgrade had been done but I still the small battery... He told me he would have it sorted out with MSA when the bike would come back for the 10.000 kms maintenance.

I then drove another 3.000 km enjoying the Corsaro tremendiously. Then one day, as I parked the bike at my dealer, I noticed an oil leak coming from one of the oil pipes in front of the front cylinder. My dealer told me I was the 3rd owner having this problem due to the pipe rubbing against the cylinder. As MSA did not have any stock for the pipe (that costs 500€ by the way!), he took one from one of his bikes and an hour later, I was on my way, happy again.

Then 2 weeks later, after a 300 kms ride, I noticed an oil leak again, but coming from the top of the engine, close to the air box. My dealer had just closed for his summer holiday, so I sent an email with pictures to MSA and I was told I could keep on using the bike if I checked the oil level and the oil pressure light didn't come on. I decided to be patient and didn't move the bike until my dealer reopended two weeks later.

He opened the airbox which was full of oil. He cleaned it well, check the injection ramp and went for a ride to find out the air box as full of oil again. As he had worked half a day on my bike already and he was starting to get fed up with MSA as well, he decided he would bring them the bike to let them fix it under guaranty... There it started.

It took them 2 weeks to spot the problem: premature wear of the valve guides (not sure of the english translation here, sorry). I was told they would replace both cylinders heads with new ones under guaranty but that that they didn't have the spare parts and didn't know how long it would take to get them. After a month and a half, I was told the new cylinder heads were in place but they were missing the exhausts joints... Why weren't these ordered with the spare parts needed to fix my bike? I still don't know... I insisted also to have them fit the bike with the battery upgrade.

After three months in their shop, my bike was finally ready. When my dealer got it back he noticed scratches on the tank. These weren't there when my bike was sent to MSA. The scratches seemed to have been covered with some black paint. When MSA was asked, they just reverted saying every care had been taken during the repairs and they couldn't do anything about it.

After that, my dealer put the bike on his computer and had to resolve 15 error messages. He also noticed that the battery hadn't been changed. This was too much for me, I left the bike there for him to sell it and luckily, it went quickly.

I am sad because I really loved it (except for the fuel consumption!). One thing I want to mention as well is that I involved Morini just after the bike was taken to MSA to try to speed things up. They did get back to me just to tell me they trusted MSA to resolve my problem professionally and quickly...

My story shouldn't stop you from buying this fantastic bike though. The problems I've had are more related to the importer here in Belgium and the early technical problems seem to have been solved by Morini. I just had to get it out of my chest...

Alain

[vtxbrit]

Alain,
thank you for your honest comments, the resemblance between Benelli and moto Morini is uncanny in so much as they are both superb looking bikes, they both handle extremely well, they both have stonking power delivery and they both have issues concerning reliability fuelling and build quality.
I realise that in high performance vehicles in bikes or cars (and the moto Morini and Benelli are definitely high performance), that the unreliability factor will be slightly higher……. but major oil leaks, overheating, starting problems and lack of factory/dealer support has nothing to do with performance, but it does have a lot to do with build quality and attitude to the paying customers.
Again I must stress that I know there are some really helpful dealers out there who must feel like they’re bashing their heads against a brick wall, however with respect to them we the paying customer who after parting with very good money only ask for a reliable machine.
And with the confidence that if there is a problem, it will be fixed quickly and permanently.
Good luck to all we long suffering Italian bike owners.

[carpe diem]

Hi Alain,
We had no news from eachother since long , but your story is relating the
mainstory for a lot of us on the continent. There is a lot of improving needed, not quite as such on the bike(still there is some..) , but it would be acceptable if all what's inherent to the internal/external communication around clients and dealers/ importers/ MM should be simplified and cleared out . But I'm afraid that will be no exception into the moto/automotive world .... Regards Thierry