Capless idiot light bulb size

[trinder]

Does anyone know the size of the capless bulbs that fit into the 78 Strada idiot lights? Are they 286’s? The reason for asking is that I have changed my headlight bulb for one of Paul Goff’s Daylighter bulbs and found upon fitting that the headlight was on full beam no matter whether the switch was in the high or low position. I changed the connections round on the headlight bulb holder and viola! The headlight would dip and go on to main beam as it should albeit that the position of the switch was reversed (Low beam was High, High was Low) with the idiot light showing in the Low position, although the bulb was clearly marked as being Pos/Neg earth compatible.

I contacted Paul by email and within a matter of minutes he replied telling me to put the wiring back as was and to remove the incandescent idiot light bulb and all should work as it should and that being the case, he would supply me a new led idiot bulb FOC. I did as he told me and low and behold, everything worked correctly. I emailed him back informing him of the good news with a photo of the capless bulb, however, he has not got a capless LED small enough that will fit the bulb holder.

I asked Paul to explain what caused the problem with the LED headlight bulb and he gave the following answer: “There is a minute feedback from one of the LED headlamp terminals that goes through the incandescent idiot light filament & back to the other terminal on the LED headlamp. Fitting an LED idiot light prevents this”.

So anyone changing the standard incandescent bulb for an LED should be aware of this.

Regards, Neil

[3potjohn]

The bulbs on my K1 are 286 /T5 capless wedge bulbs. My instruments and some of the warning lights are Led, not the main beam as too bright and I did not bother with my indicator due to polarity issues but may yet do this as its the most important.
Some of my bulbholders are held in with a dap of mastic as they drop out if I hit a pothole. Should read “when “.
I have not converted to Led headlight as believe it will fail my MOT ( still needed for a couple of years)
John

[Steve Brown]

Hi Mr T, is this another LED you've tried? I seem to recall you experimenting before with them? How does the beam work out with this new daylighter version? I guess you may not have been able to test it properly at night yet, but I'm keen to know-It may save me spending on another experiment

[trinder]

The bulbs on my K1 are 286 /T5 capless wedge bulbs. My instruments and some of the warning lights are Led, not the main beam as too bright and I did not bother with my indicator due to polarity issues but may yet do this as its the most important.
Some of my bulbholders are held in with a dap of mastic as they drop out if I hit a pothole. Should read “when “.
I have not converted to Led headlight as believe it will fail my MOT ( still needed for a couple of years)
John

Hi John,
What’s an MOT? joking apart, although my Morini is now MOT exempt, I have been using LED bulbs in my headlight for 5 years both on the Morini and on my Matchless. My local MOT test station is very very strict and has never failed the Morini for using one. I have changed both bikes to the more recent iteration as they both gave up within e few months of each other so you should have no fears there. As to polarity, that is no longer a problem as the latest type work equally as well on negative or positive earth as well as being good to go on either 6V or 12V systems. Given the ever increasing chance of encountering a SMIDSY, I have to say for me “The Brighter, the better!”.

Neil

[trinder]

Hi Mr T, is this another LED you've tried? I seem to recall you experimenting before with them? How does the beam work out with this new daylighter version? I guess you may not have been able to test it properly at night yet, but I'm keen to know-It may save me spending on another experiment

Tight Git! If I tell you, I’ll have to kill you. The new Daylighter version gives a much better beam pattern and is configured in such a way as to emulate an incandescent bulb closer. The only issue I had was as highlighted at the beginning of this thread. I suspect that mixing the incandescent bulbs with LED is what lead to the earlier than expected demise of the old type of LED bulb. I suppose Ive got to let you drink some more of my whisky now

Neil

[nickst4]

Hi John,
What’s an MOT? joking apart, although my Morini is now MOT exempt, I have been using LED bulbs in my headlight for 5 years both on the Morini and on my Matchless. My local MOT test station is very very strict and has never failed the Morini for using one. I have changed both bikes to the more recent iteration as they both gave up within e few months of each other so you should have no fears there. As to polarity, that is no longer a problem as the latest type work equally as well on negative or positive earth as well as being good to go on either 6V or 12V systems. Given the ever increasing chance of encountering a SMIDSY, I have to say for me “The Brighter, the better!”.

Neil

How right you are; about the non-issue of LED MOT compliance, and also about the value of having a brighter headlamp!

My MOT man is also very thorough, and when I asked him (with bated wossname!) about the MOT/LED issue some years ago when the rumours were going around, he said he had never received any directive from the powers-that-be that LED bulbs were not acceptable. Headlamp aim and pattern are still important, but any bike owner should be able to adjust them properly.

Nick

[3potjohn]

I shall stick to my conventional H4 for now. Besides its so damn sunny down here that a light is almost superfluous.
I anticipate the bulb blowing forthwith.
John

[Al Limite]

Stolen from another forum where this was posted by an MOT tester

The upgrading of existing halogen headlamps with HID bulbs has been a MOT fail for a few years now. However upgrading with LED bulbs was OK. Not anymore! From 11/01/2021 the MOT rules have been updated to make the fitment of LED bulbs ( in existing halogen units) a fail.

I attach the new rule for clarity.

4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment

4.1.4 Headlamps - Compliance with requirements - Changed sentence from 'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.' to 'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.'

[3potjohn]

Indeed. In fact I did buy an LED headlight bulb when in sunny Lincolnshire a couple of years or three ago, with a view to fitting it to my R100RS. Best £900 I ever spent. Why did I sell it? Ah yes those brakes.......
I just tried it in my Morini for devilments sake, ( remarkable that this accursed ipad didn’t try and correct that to Devimead) and it worked without drama. Except I cannot see now. All idiot lights worked. It is the type with a small fan.
I reverted to the H4.
John

[mbmm350s]

Mr Al limite wrote:

4.1.4 Headlamps - Compliance with requirements - Changed sentence from 'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.' to 'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.'

To be fair - Morinis of this era i.e sports/stradas/250 etc of the 70s and 80s, were fitted with OEM CEV with Bosch type BA20D fitting non halogen 35/30W or 45/40W and as such, and I stand to be corrected, it is not a fail to convert these or indeed Lucas fittings to LED. The specifics of the regulation quoted relate to Halogen unit conversion. e.g converting a CIBIE H4 unit to LED would be a fail. To avoid any issue surely just put a regular bulb in for the MOT?
Honestly you would be better off with a bicycle LED lamp strapped to your head than an OEM 35/30W headlamp.

Cheers
MArk

[Al Limite]

Good evening Mark,
I do not disagree with your logic. I posted the 2021 MOT change to allow members to see the extent of the new requirements.
If they never were halogen on leaving the production line it would appear the new regulations authors never considered that scenario would apply to 2021 MOT's. Of course we may be naive in believing that the MOT legislators have sufficient experience/knowledge to have considered that scenario!

[3potjohn]

Think on reconsidering I may go for a Daylighter next time. In any case I believe the performance of a standard bulb does fall off with time, or am I confusing that with strip lighting?
John

[Steve Brown]

I suppose Ive got to let you drink some more of my whisky now

Neil

That would be nice! as long as it's not past its sell by date when we get to meet again. Now then, about me being a tight git. OK, you got me there, I admit the charges. I asked as you had posted about this in the distant past, and in conversation you'd said they were crap and that you wouldn't bother again! I know now that you are an inveterate meddler with fripperies like effective lighting or other gizmos.
I'm pleased to hear that your latest experiment has worked out and having looked at Goffy's page and the specs I may take the plunge too. I like to use my bike for evening club nights (remember them?) and I even bought a complete LED headlamp with chrome shell to allow that sort of night riding. Well I was properly mugged on that particular purchase, despite the ebay ad claiming all sorts of brightness and even an E marking. The thing I got was even less use than the old CEV original! If your recommendation works for me I will happily allow you to serve me your unwanted whisky. Carry on Sergeant.

[nickst4]

That's bad news about the MOT regulations, but I wonder how strictly they will be applied, especially as regards bikes? I've run a HID H4 in my '85 Alazzurra for a good 15 years and it has never been questioned. As it happens, that particular HID bulb is the only one of several installations that has survived for any length of time, and the rest of the dozen or so bikes are all converted to LED, as are both of the cars. MOT time will be interesting this year. Glad I'm on good terms with both chaps I use, and I didn't say that!

Nick

[nickst4]

Just a follow-up thought: do we assume that the fitting of extra LED driving lights like those invariably attached to BMW GS bikes (and aimed for maximum aggravation to other drivers) are exempt from the regulations? I guess if you don't turn them on during the MOT test, no-one will complain. Perhaps our bikes will come to resemble the driving-light-bedecked Lambrettas of yore, with a selection of bulbs including one obligatory halogen candle...