Howdy folks, who knows how to lock up the clutch drum so I can remove the centre bolt? Got oil leaking into my clutch causing slip which is very annoying when you want to welly it and overtake someone down the dual carriageway. Obviously I have to remove the clutch drum to get at the oil seal behind it, thus necessitating removal of the drum (or is it callled the clutch basket?)
I am sure there might be more than one solution. I thought of putting a bar accross the studs but realised that this might bend them, not a good idea! Need to get it done before I ride to France in 3 weeks time, just sorted a load of stuff after failing MOT and now this!
clutch removal
Whatever you do don't hang onto the studs!!! They are a bit delicate and need little invitation to go loose in the drum and then it is a real pain to either tighten or loosen the clutch nuts!
The only way to get the nut off is to use the approved tool or a fiendishly constructed substitute. Mine is an old clutch plate with a suitably bent piece of bar welded to it. It's not high tech but does the job. I am sure that NLM would have old clutch plates for a reasonable cost. The oil seal behind the drum is a standard size and can be got from a bearing factor. Just be careful when putting it on as it is easy to nick the feather edge as the seal is being put on in the 'wrong' direction.
While you have got the drum off check out the studs. If they show any signs of movement a couple of well placed centre punch pops where they come through at the back can help tighten them. If not a friendly welder may be able to get a little weld on them. They must be ground flush though or the burr will foul on the primary drive behind.
Also while you have the clutch apart take a file to the drum and drop any burrs that have been thrown up, likewise for the clutch plates.
Hope this is of use.
John.
The only way to get the nut off is to use the approved tool or a fiendishly constructed substitute. Mine is an old clutch plate with a suitably bent piece of bar welded to it. It's not high tech but does the job. I am sure that NLM would have old clutch plates for a reasonable cost. The oil seal behind the drum is a standard size and can be got from a bearing factor. Just be careful when putting it on as it is easy to nick the feather edge as the seal is being put on in the 'wrong' direction.
While you have got the drum off check out the studs. If they show any signs of movement a couple of well placed centre punch pops where they come through at the back can help tighten them. If not a friendly welder may be able to get a little weld on them. They must be ground flush though or the burr will foul on the primary drive behind.
Also while you have the clutch apart take a file to the drum and drop any burrs that have been thrown up, likewise for the clutch plates.
Hope this is of use.
John.
clutch removal
Thanks very much for your really quick reply, I ll give NLM a buzz n see if they have any old plates. It would certainly be useful making such a tool for future use aswell.
cheers John ( me too)
The easy way to get the clutch hub off is an air impact driver or electric equivilent, then you can hold the hub by hand.
A good way of preventing the clutch screws from jamming, is to NOT tighten them all the way. There's no need to and the spring pressure will stop them coming undone.
You've got a seal for the pushrod, a seal inside the basket, and a seal in the crankcase. You should also check that the hardened sleeve that the basket spins on is sealed to the gearbox shaft. Blue Hylomar is what is recommonded in the 'Blue Book'.
Whilst you're in there you might as well shim the clutch end float.
With new seals it shouldn't be a problem, but using the side stand brings the oil level up over the clutch seals. My bike only leaks at Cadwell when the centre stand is wired up.
A good way of preventing the clutch screws from jamming, is to NOT tighten them all the way. There's no need to and the spring pressure will stop them coming undone.
You've got a seal for the pushrod, a seal inside the basket, and a seal in the crankcase. You should also check that the hardened sleeve that the basket spins on is sealed to the gearbox shaft. Blue Hylomar is what is recommonded in the 'Blue Book'.
Whilst you're in there you might as well shim the clutch end float.
With new seals it shouldn't be a problem, but using the side stand brings the oil level up over the clutch seals. My bike only leaks at Cadwell when the centre stand is wired up.
Paul Compton
http://www.morini-mania.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru
http://www.morini-mania.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru
clutch removal
Wow! another quick reply..much appreciated. I shall delve into my clutch with renewed confidence. thanks Paul.
I can't handle all these modern devices!!!! I've only just got the hang of my rechargeable drill!! An air or electric rattler is a good way of getting the drum off but the clutch tool is needed to do it all back up.
When I have replaced the oil seal behind the drum I have used a long reach allen key (1.5 or 2mm) to hook in behind and then pull out.
Everything that Paul added I can also back up from experience, except leaking when on the sidestand at Cadwell - mine only leaked from the rear cylinder base gasket!!
John.
When I have replaced the oil seal behind the drum I have used a long reach allen key (1.5 or 2mm) to hook in behind and then pull out.
Everything that Paul added I can also back up from experience, except leaking when on the sidestand at Cadwell - mine only leaked from the rear cylinder base gasket!!
John.
clutch removal
John...thanks again, I'm in the process of making a clutch tool. I can't understand your last posting though...'When I have replaced the oil seal behind the drum I have used a long reach allen key to hook in behind then pull it out'......pull what out? and why are you hooking it in there in the first place? Sorry, not had weetabix yet. tnx 4yr help
The oil seal.pull what out? and why are you hooking it in there in the first place?
The figures aren't all that clear, but items 15 and 16 (shown behind the clutch basket) are the two seals.
The small seal fits into the clutch basket and the larger one fits into the clutch side crankcase cover (between the clutch basket and the primary gear).
If you want to avoid taking the crankcase cover off, then you can just hook the oil seal out and carefully tap in a new one.
Item 3 is the sleeve on which the basket spins. This is what you have to seal to the shaft with Hylomar. Otherwise oil will find it's way down the bore.
Paul Compton
http://www.morini-mania.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru
http://www.morini-mania.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru
The clutch has got three seals involved with it - the one in the clutch nut that Paul spoke of, the one behind the clutch drum that you are replacing and a large one that seals between the outer clutch drum and the crankcase. The seal you are replacing is seated in this drum and is easy to replace if you remove the outer drum but removing this drum can be a pain it itself even though it is 'only' bolted in place with allen screws. Using an allen key lets you pull out the small seal without dismantling the clutch fully.
It may be that if the small seal is leaking it may be worth fighting the bolts and replacing the larger seal. Once you have got the iner drum off I am sure it will all become clear!!
John.
It may be that if the small seal is leaking it may be worth fighting the bolts and replacing the larger seal. Once you have got the iner drum off I am sure it will all become clear!!
John.
Thanks for the pictorial clarification Paul!!
It is possible to replace the larger seal by only taking out the outer drum/basket leaving the crankcase half intact. The only problem I have come across is that the allen bolts are easy enough to remove but the outer drum/basket is located by dowel pins in the primary drive gear. This can be a tight fit and there is not a lot to get hold of to pull it out. My Strada clutch came apart fairly easily but the Coguaro was a real struggle!!
When the time comes to reassemble the clutch it is important that the dowel pins are clean and free of burrs.
Oh, and unless you want a floor covered in oil, drain the oil out of the engine before removing the outer drum/basket!!
John
It is possible to replace the larger seal by only taking out the outer drum/basket leaving the crankcase half intact. The only problem I have come across is that the allen bolts are easy enough to remove but the outer drum/basket is located by dowel pins in the primary drive gear. This can be a tight fit and there is not a lot to get hold of to pull it out. My Strada clutch came apart fairly easily but the Coguaro was a real struggle!!
When the time comes to reassemble the clutch it is important that the dowel pins are clean and free of burrs.
Oh, and unless you want a floor covered in oil, drain the oil out of the engine before removing the outer drum/basket!!
John
Thank you (Clutch Info)
Thanks to all who gave advice on replacing clutch seals. Got the clutch drum off without too much trouble. I think the problem was that previous owner didn't 'hylomar' the shaft bush. I managed to do that without removing primary case, just poking some through the gap between primary gear hole and shaft. My main problem was getting drum back on with the new seal in it as this meant the seal inner was being slid over the bush from the rear..it wouln't go on without severely deforming seal. I took the drum off again and removed the seal. I slid the seal on its own over the bush with a little moly grease, this meant I could angle the seal and rotate it as I slid it onto the bush...much easier than when its in the drum. Anyway I got it all back together and the clutch isn't sliiping anymore. It feels like having an extra 10 hp.Tricky job but once you've done it once should be easier next time. Thanks everyone, long live the forum...it works well.
I would stronly advise to tighten the clutch screws correctly: even so, one went loose on my 500, starting grinding the cover. Fortunately the stud was not damaged.EVguru wrote:A good way of preventing the clutch screws from jamming, is to NOT tighten them all the way. There's no need to and the spring pressure will stop them coming undone.
When checking the whole stuff, I discovered that the springs were well tired, being shorter than the specified length. Probably the pressure was too low to hold the screw in position.
Best regards,
Bruno
The fastest touring rack east of the Channel
Another possible problem with the clutch- if it's slipping despite everything being checked OK, the spring cups could have elongated, causing them to ground inside the clutch centre. replacing the thin friction plate with a standard thick one helps, as does a bit of hammer work to the curved bit at the bottom of each cup, to flatten it slightly.