5k Resistor plug-caps - EVGuru?

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Daddy Dom
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006 19:48
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

5k Resistor plug-caps - EVGuru?

Post by Daddy Dom »

likewise the plug caps (No resistor, or 1K, rather than 5K).
Paul, you've suggested this in this thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1468 and as I have the 5k caps (running from a new set of NLM transducers) I thought if you recommend a lower rating there must be a good reason.

The fellow I tried to order some from began his spiel, "no, no, you don't want 1k caps, you need 5k ones especially with electronic ignition ...." but of course, he knows nothing about Morinis. :!:

What is the reasoning behind the lower rated cap, please?

Cheers,
DD
MRC 3082½
hendre
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: 5k Resistor plug-caps - EVGuru?

Post by hendre »

I once went into this when solving ignition problems for a Ducati Pantah....

info on BMW Bosch ignition units on the web...
--------------------------
For those with the BMW electronic ignition, which was stock from 1981, be sure you use nominal 5000 ohm spark plug caps. You can use stranded copper aftermarket wires and NGK LB05F caps....which are 5000 ohms nominally. Please use quality solid stranded core wires and 5000 ohm caps! If you do not use the proper wiring and caps you will likely destroy the triggering unit, $$$$, from re-radiated energy.

POINTS bikes can use 1000 ohm nominal caps, NGK LB01F caps for a very slight advantage
--------------------------
So be carfull experimenting as you can distroy the ignition coils...

As I found out strolling along the web is that resistor caps delay the spark slightly but prolong the spark duration so more chance that your fuel mixture will burn. Our Morini's (at least the first drum brake types) ran on no resistor caps/plugs but my experience is that they do run fine on 5k NGK caps...
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Re: 5k Resistor plug-caps - EVGuru?

Post by EVguru »

The main reason resistor caps are used is to reduce electromagnetic interference.

Fitting resistor plugs or caps requires more voltage for a spark. With inductive ignition, you will automatically get enough voltage, either for a spark, or for the insulation (coil, leads, etc.) to break down. With capacitive discharge ignition, the voltage is fixed by the primary voltage and the coil turns ratio. On a car with CD ignition, the primary voltage is usually derived from a step up converter running off the battery, but on a Morini, it's derived from a dedicated coil on the alternator and goes from a low whilst kicking to a magnetically limited high somewhere in the rev-range (That's what the copper plate is for). This means that spark voltage is at a minimum when starting and stock setup is NO resistance in plugs, caps, or leads.
Paul Compton
http://www.morini-mania.co.uk
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Sam Stoney
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Re: 5k Resistor plug-caps - EVGuru?

Post by Sam Stoney »

Below is an interesting test Rainier Lamers did on resistance in spark plug circuits:

http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginetro ... dplugs.htm

Text from the website is below.


Sam



In order to get to the bottom of this Spark plug vs. resistance story I decided to do some experiments. I am a electronics engineer (when I am not flying :-), so I have the tools for the job.

First a coil was rigged for the job to create the high voltage required for the plugs. I used a standard car coil combined with an electronic interrupter/generator. Spark plugs with and without resistors as well as caps with and without resistors where obtained. The plugs where all equally gapped to 0.4mm. I used a scope to monitor the voltage at the plug tip as well as at the coil (via high impedance probe - scopes are expensive !). The result was quite interesting.

As expected, the voltage at the cable (before any resistor) rises at the same rate regardless of resistance until the point of firing. Thereafter however the picture changes.

The coil generates a certain amount of energy. This energy wants to go somewhere. At a voltage of about 7KV the plug fires (irrespective of resistance). Until that happens NO CURRENT FLOWS. Whether you have resistance or not does not matter. A paltry 5KOhms does not do anything when compared to the nearly infinite resistance of the gap itself (until the plug fires that is).

Once the plug fires the resistance comes into being. The coil cannot get rid of its energy in the shortest possible time due to the resistance.

This reduces current flow in the spark and it takes quite a bit longer until the energy in the coil has expelled itself via resistor and spark gap. This results in a longer spark. However the spark is weaker due to energy loss in the resistor.

The scope shows this very nicely and it also gives reason why the resistor helps to suppress RF. With the resistor changes in the rate of current flow are much less resulting in "flatter" edges on the voltage vs. time curve that the scope shows you. This implies less high frequency components of the signal in the cable feeding the spark plugs.

Conclusion: It is quite safe to insert a resistor. It will not stop the plug from firing at all. High values will however lead to a weaker spark -but it is going to spark, no matter what.

However, contaminate the plug with fuel (even just a little) and a high value resistor will cause the plug not to fire. 10K plugs as are used on some motorcycles now are about maximum I would guess.

I do not recommend you use resistance plugs or caps at all on inverted Rotax installations due to the possibility of plug contamination by oil and fuel.

As further experiment I increased the resistance value to see what effect this is going to have. I tried values 10K, 47K, 100K, 220K, 470K, 820K and 1M.

Even with 1M the plug (dry, not contaminated) still fired but noticeably weaker and longer (you can actually see it firing longer !). But contaminate this plug even slightly (a little moisture by exhaling onto it) and you get no spark.

Finally, a disclaimer: All of the above has been found out by a little experimenting. Use the results at your own peril. Don't get back to be with a heap of bent metal that used to be your plane claiming it is because I said you should put 1M resistors into your spark plug leads. I did NOT.

Rainier Lamers.
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