headlamp bulbs - std or halogen or hid

[stillooking]

Hello folks,
I'm just attending to a few things on the bike that I should've dealt with before as I need to get an MOT for my early 3 1/2. I've found that the headlamp bulb is malfunctioning (only getting full beam). I haven't got testing equipt to see whether it's wiring or bulb etc and I doubt whether I'd know how to use it anyway. By elemination I 'm thinking it's probably the bulb.

So, I need to get bulb(s) to replace it etc - the std h/lamp bulb on this bike (original) is I think BA20 D ' Bosch fitting', the local car place doesn't have this one (although he did go right through his old stock, which included hundreds of vintage bulbs in their original boxes).

I've had a look on the Beedspeed (Lambretta/Vespa specialists) website before and I think they do std or halogen type 12 v 35/35w bulbs in the correct fitting. Can anyone on the forum advise whether halogen will be ok on the standard alternator/wiring and whether there will be a noticeable benefit versus standard bulb ?

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On a related topic, I've noticed discussions on HID systems, if I took the time to fit it at a later date, would this be appropriate for a bike like this? Or would there be problems due to the small output of the alternator and also the OE wiring?

As you can probably guess, electrics are a bit of puzzling area for me but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

G

[robint]

Halfords stock a 35/35W BA20D halogen bulb (in the motorcycle section not with car bulbs - at least in Nuneaton!) which fits fine, is £3.99 I think, and gives a good enough light pattern in the standard headlamp. However it doesn't seem to be terribly durable as I've blown two dipped beams very quickly and so gone back to the bulb I've had in for years.

As I do very little night riding now it's not a big issue for me to stick with the standard glow worm approach but for improvements and other halogen BA20D then maybe Paul Goff's bulbs are more vibration resistant see http://www.norbsa02@freeuk.com. Just occasionally the Cibie conversions appear on ebay, but rather depends on how much night riding is planned.

If your Morini has not been restored then do not assume anything about the electrics...........

[stillooking]

Halfords stock a 35/35W BA20D halogen bulb (in the motorcycle section not with car bulbs - at least in Nuneaton!) which fits fine, is £3.99 I think, and gives a good enough light pattern in the standard headlamp. However it doesn't seem to be terribly durable as I've blown two dipped beams very quickly and so gone back to the bulb I've had in for years.

As I do very little night riding now it's not a big issue for me to stick with the standard glow worm approach but for improvements and other halogen BA20D then maybe Paul Goff's bulbs are more vibration resistant see http://www.norbsa02@freeuk.com. Just occasionally the Cibie conversions appear on ebay, but rather depends on how much night riding is planned.

If your Morini has not been restored then do not assume anything about the electrics...........

Thanks for the tips Robin, should've tried Halfords really they're only a few miles or so away; doesn't sound terribly promising durability wise though.

Anyroads, I spent so much time deliberating I just phoned the scooter people up in the end, I ordered two types, a halogen 35/35w BA20d and a halogen 35/35 w BA20d H4 type. Should arrive tomorrow/Monday. Will give this a go.

Yes, you're probably right about the electrics, it's a bike originally used in a drier climate, corrosion wasn't bad. I cleaned all wiring & contacts and ensured it was to OE spec/colour and layout then just restored the other bits of the bike, truth be told...

[3potjohn]

Phillips do a new motorcycle bulb-supposed to be vibration resistant and give a lot of light-not cheap though.I use a Vision Plus bulb in a CIbie unit.

[adrian650]

I have a '74 strada with standard electrics and the 'early' headlamp unit and case. This made a very dim, poorly spread yellow beam. I fitted a 6" Cibie unit some years ago with a standard 55/60 H4 bulb and it is great. The 100W alternator seems adequate and the beam is very well focused with an excellent cut off. Even though it is a 6" unit (ie not usual 5.75 inch) I needed a custom ring to support it. I was planning to use a fret saw to cut a piece of stainless but I did a bit of plastic as a test and it has been in place ever since.

I got my lamp from a Lotus spares chap as the early Elise had a 6" unit but I can't find a source online now.

[stillooking]

Thanks 3potJohn and Adrian, that's very helpful. So, I can look into using a vibration resistant bulb from Philips and also look at a Cibie lens conversion with a higher watt Bulb. That'll keep me busy.

Gareth

[EVguru]

The lighting on my 125H was so poor I couldn't ride it after dusk and I fitted a Honda 250 Superdream lamp. That worked quite well, but the vibration of the single ate bulbs, so the toolbox was full of bubble-wrap and spare bulbs.

When I got the 250 twin, it still had its original CEV headlamp, but the ilumination was Ok (despite the 6 volt electrics). The bulb failed after a while and the replacement was useless. I found out that many of the cheap bulbs don't have the filament in the right place for the reflector to focus properly. Tracking down some genuine Osram bulbs restored service, in fact it was better than before.

A 35watt light is a 35 watt light, the current should be the same (there will be variation from what's actually printed on the bulb), so a 35watt Halogen pulls the same current as a 35watt Tungsten.

A lot of the HID kits aren't road legal and you're not supposed to fit HID lights on a bike unless they have a self levelling system.

[adrian650]

Paul makes a very good point, someone mentioned the filament issue to me with regard to halogen bulbs on 'old' bases. If the filament is not correctly aligned the lamp's focusing system will be useless. I believe that different halogen bulbs emit more/less might per watt then others but it is quite a small difference despite the manufacturer's hype. I think getting a good lens/reflector is a big step forward. For some reason Cibie were very well regarded inn the 70s but perhaps modern plain lens/faceted reflectors ('free-form) have the edge?

Anyway, I did find a Lotus Cibie link:
http://www.elise-shop.com/headlamp-elis ... -p-50.html

Don't forget, check 5.75" versus 6" for your shell. The latter is rare in general but OE on early machines.

Adrian

[stillooking]

Thanks to Adrian and Paul for the latest tips,

This morning, I've received the two halogen 35/35 bulbs in the post, tried one out and I can get full & dip beam now. This is good. What isn't so good, is that the build quality of the bulbs may be suspect, they come from India.. and the bulb looks a bit wonky, rattles a bit and was a really tight fit into the connector. The cost of the bulbs wasn't bargain basement either, which they should be coming from India really. Next time, I'll probably look for a recognised brand name.

The bulbs are going in the std. chrome CEV headlamp. Hopefully, I can get reasonable adjustment on the light beam to meet the MOT. I do have some concerns after your experiences with lamp focusing issues though.

It's good to see that the Superdream can be a useful donor! For a longer term fix, I will consider this route or look into the Cibie conversion.

I think I'll park the HID option for the moment.

Thanks once again for your kind help.

Gareth

[Brubru]

I could only encourage you into finding a H4 headlamp. Even if some other types of bulbs have appeared over the last years, the H4 remains the reference when you have a combined light (full and dip). They are produced in huge quantities at a low price for a good quality, and you are sure that you'll still find them within 10 years.

In most cases the alternator can cope with the higher wattage, except if you mostly ride at low revs with the lights always on. in such case you could progressively discharge the battery. I had this problem with my old 3 1/2: I had to turn the lights off from time to time. But never with the 500.

I confirm Paul's comments about halogen replacement bulbs for old incandescent types. The lens is always designed in function of the filament. And the filament of a halogen light is always more compact than the equivalent incandescent one. By switching to halogen in an old headlamp, you will get a lower quality beam; probably not to the point you would not meet the MOT, but far from what you could expect.

Cibie lights are effectively high quality. They have later been manufactured by Valeo, hence if you find a Valeo light it is just as good. Hella and Bosch also made good quality products. Most of the other stuff, even if they look smart with facetted reflector should be avoided. And take care for Chines copies like Bigie...

This kind of round light has been manufactured for motorcycles and for cars. Provided the diameter is the same, you could as well take one from an old car.

Good luck!

Bruno

[stillooking]

I could only encourage you into finding a H4 headlamp. Even if some other types of bulbs have appeared over the last years, the H4 remains the reference when you have a combined light (full and dip). They are produced in huge quantities at a low price for a good quality, and you are sure that you'll still find them within 10 years.

In most cases the alternator can cope with the higher wattage, except if you mostly ride at low revs with the lights always on. in such case you could progressively discharge the battery. I had this problem with my old 3 1/2: I had to turn the lights off from time to time. But never with the 500.

I confirm Paul's comments about halogen replacement bulbs for old incandescent types. The lens is always designed in function of the filament. And the filament of a halogen light is always more compact than the equivalent incandescent one. By switching to halogen in an old headlamp, you will get a lower quality beam; probably not to the point you would not meet the MOT, but far from what you could expect.

Cibie lights are effectively high quality. They have later been manufactured by Valeo, hence if you find a Valeo light it is just as good. Hella and Bosch also made good quality products. Most of the other stuff, even if they look smart with facetted reflector should be avoided. And take care for Chines copies like Bigie...

This kind of round light has been manufactured for motorcycles and for cars. Provided the diameter is the same, you could as well take one from an old car.

Good luck!

Bruno

Thanks Bruno, I can confirm that the new halogen bulb doesn't seem to offer a significant improvement combined with the original headlamp. So, will start looking for replacement headlamp and reflector.

Gareth