350 not charging the battery

[layton]

Hi folks,
My name is Layton and I'm based in Darwen lancs.
I'm a newbie to the site and in fact any site lol!

I bought my first Morini about a month ago. A 1982 350 k2 Italian imported about 2000. It was a non runner with the alternator removed. The vendor believed it wasn't charging. The elderly chap he'd bought it from had given up on it.
I found a receipt stating it had been rewound about 8 years ago by NLM. It looks newly wound with no heat damage. The bike doesn't seem to have been ridden in all this intervening time.

The NLM ignition was goosed so a SACHSE ignition kit, coils and regulator fitted . Sourced from Doug at Mdina, a top fellow who has been a brilliant help.

I've got it running after several attempts to fix the original components. And it sounds bob on.

Unfortunately it's not charging the battery.
There's 30+ volt coming from the 2 yellow leads when measured to earth. 1.5 yellow to yellow.

There's 20+ volts from the red lead measured to earth. The multimeter shows charge when in series to the + battery terminal but connecting directly to the battery there's no evidence of it charging the battery, just the batteries 12.8ish volts. I'm worried about putting high voltage through the harness and cooking the ecu.

120+ volts from the now isolated green.
White goes to earth.

None of the regulators I've fitted have provided a charging current.

I am really at a loss. I've been bodging bikes for getting on for 50 years but this one has got me beat.

Does anyone have a suggestion, or highlight a peculiarity of these machines that could point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance for any help - Layton

[3potjohn]

Have you a copy of the Blue book Morini manual?

According to the section on testing for correct charge function, you should be getting around 8amp with the meter connected in series to the red lead which goes from the generator to the battery at 6000rpm.
Disconnect the three leads, 2 yellow and one red coming from the generator. At 6000 rpm you should get around 60v across the two yellows and around 30v between a red and a yellow.
To partly check the regulator disconnect it and put the meter across the two yellow terminals. Should be zero resistance.
At least this is my understanding. Thus far I have never had a charging issue.
Are the fusebox terminals good and clean with no wobbly terminals and sound fuses?
Also search “Strada not charging” on this section. This should link
viewtopic.php?p=23862#p23862

[layton]

Hi 3potjohn,
Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly.
I've just been outside annoying the neighbours lol!

Red to battery+ amps = no response at the multimeter.
Yellow to Yellow 2.1v
Yellow 1 to red 4.5v
Yellow 2 to red 2.5v

White to earth 0.04ohm

Yellow to Yellow resistance 0.90 mili ohms.
Yellow1+2 to red nil resistance response.

At face value does the alternator need rewinding or the flywheel need re-magnetising perhaps. The bike had been with NLM for various jobs, Valves had been set but had zero clearances, the starter stripped and overhauled but the starter chain was hanging off. I guess everyone has an off day but maybe the rewind wsan't done properly?
I'll have a look at your strada suggestion now.

Again thanks for your help- Layton

[mbmm350s]

Red to battery+ amps = no response at the multimeter.
Yellow to Yellow 2.1v
Yellow 1 to red 4.5v
Yellow 2 to red 2.5v

White to earth 0.04ohm

Yellow to Yellow resistance 0.90 mili ohms.
Yellow1+2 to red nil resistance response.



Again thanks for your help- Layton

Hi Layton welcome to the mysterious world of Italian electrics
Lets make sure as the numbers look a bit odd above can we redo the measurements

So please recheck the measurement suggested by John
Disconnect regulator and battery from stator remove yellows and red and leave disconnected
In the disconnected state start engine and at 6000 rpm (if you and neighbours can bear it)
measure at the stator leads, take care not to short them.
Yellow1 to Yellow2 , it should read 60V a.c rms
Yellow1 to Red, it should read 30V a.c rms (actually it should read half of the Y1 to Y2 reading)
Yellow2 to Red, it should read 30V a.c rms (actually it should read half of the Y1 to Y2 reading)

Now if these readings differ greatly then check the resistances.

Y1 to Y2 should be less than 1 ohm
Y1 to R and Y2 to R should be less than 0.5 ohms and in any case about half of the Y1 to Y2

Next find a 60W 12V bulb and put across Y1 and Y2 - take care! the bulb should light nicely, dont leave it too long though

If the resistances are good but the voltages are low below half above then you are right to suspect demagnetisation

Assuming the measurements are good

Next find a part number of the regulator if there is one its the one that starts like 34XXXX,
if not if it is a flat plain unfinned regulator that's OK.
There are two types of systems on road Morinis for now we shall call them 3 wire and 2 wire the standard on 350 roadbikes is 3 wire and uses ALL stator wires.
The 2 wire is used on 500s, a great number of 350s have been upgraded to use 2 wire systems and the regulator changed
NLM used to sell 2 wire regulators to replace the old 3 wire ones. Most aftermarket are 2 wire.
2 wire are single phase, 3 wire are so called 2 phase. 3 wire system is antique.
In order to a get the regulator to work and b) avoid frying it we need to make sure exactly which system you have
(a picture would help)

If its a plain sided unfinned regulator then you can go ahead and try to make it work
Connect the regulator and stator, the Y1 and Y2 from stator goes to terminals labelled G (grigio is Italian for yellow) in any order.
The Red from the stator goes to fuse box, which hopefully is also connected to both the battery and the main switch,
sometimes there is an inline fuse, but since you can run the engine this should be ok
In the three wire system the R/B+ terminal of the regulator IS NOT CONNECTED to anything when there is a fusebox
In fact its there only for machines like the 250 which don't have a fuse box.

On the regulator there is needed a Control input (C) this is a brown wire connected to switched 12V, make sure its there and has 12V when the main switch is on, the regulator cannot work without it. The regulator must be properly earthed - this is done via its case on original regulators.

Since you have Sachse system the green and white wires from the stator are not required

If you have anything other than the plain regulator we must first work out whether it a 3 wire or a 2 wire as the connections are different.
I can advise on how to measure the regulator to confirm which type it is. If its an unbranded generic thing then its most likely 2 wire.

Mark Bridger
BSc Elec Eng

[layton]

Hi Mark ,
Thanks for your detailed instructions, I hope I've carried them out properly!

I just revved to 6000rpm very briefly, the locals are sharpening they're pitch forks haha!

Multimeter set to AC.
Yellow 1 to yellow 2 = 2.7v
Yellow 1 to red= 5.7v
Yellow 2 to red 3.3v

Yellow 1 to yellow 2 = 0.09 ohm
yellow 1 to red= 0.06 ohm
yellow 2 to red =0.06 ohm

Yellow to yellow with h4 55/60 watt bulb = did not illuminate at all.

Regulator is 34 41 14 50. 12 volt 12 amp Ducati item. I have taken the SACHSE unit off at the moment as don't think the original is goosed (yet!)
The regulator was wired 2 yellow in and a brown ( which is a switched 12v and working) to the fuse box. The central red is just a two bladed return with no internal connections. Let me know if you need photos I'll ring the kids to find out how lol!

I hope you can make head or tail of this.

Thanks Layton.

[layton]

Hi everyone,

Still no further on with the battery not charging.
Rex's speed shop - Top fella! tested the stator and resistance was all good and didn't need work. He said he'd never seen a flywheel lose it's magnetism in 30 years, and to be fair it seems pretty strong to me. But a few of the posts talk about re-magnetizing the flywheel so is there something specific about morinis?

I haven't been revving it to 6000 just out of mechanical sympathy but 4000+.
The yellows put out 25v+ ac to earth
yellow to yellow 2.5v ac
yellow1 to red 5v ac
yellow2 to red 2.5v ac
green 270v ac
red 15v dc to earth or +ve battery.

Connected up through the regulator the battery voltage stays at 12.2v. It wants a bit of a charge up.
There has to be something about the alternator I'm missing but I can't figure it out. I'm loosing what's left of my hair lol!

Has anyone got any ideas?

Its Whisky time!
Cheers- Layton.