Aye,
not so fine fettle at the moment, came off last week do to errant cyclist who thought he owned the road! Cut me up on a traffic island causing me to brake then I just lost it. Could have been worse, I was only pootling along.
So I have a few things to put right, the damage is mainly superficial, don't think any thing major is bent but its going to be an arse pain getting it all together again and then there's the cost. I am bruised and grazed so not too comfortable about it and its difficult to work as one of my thumbs is damaged.
The cyclist, didn't stop, looked back but kept on going!!
Best regards
Leonard.
125 WITH NO SPARK
-
julianharty
- Posts: 597
- Joined: 15 May 2016 16:34
- Location: High Wycombe
- Location: High Wycombe Area (Bucks)
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
Leonard,125H wrote: ↑29 Jul 2024 18:27 Aye,
not so fine fettle at the moment, came off last week do to errant cyclist who thought he owned the road! Cut me up on a traffic island causing me to brake then I just lost it. Could have been worse, I was only pootling along.
So I have a few things to put right, the damage is mainly superficial, don't think any thing major is bent but its going to be an arse pain getting it all together again and then there's the cost. I am bruised and grazed so not too comfortable about it and its difficult to work as one of my thumbs is damaged.
The cyclist, didn't stop, looked back but kept on going!!
Best regards
Leonard.
All the best with your recovery. For the bike Ian Lucas and/or several others here might have suitable spares. When you get the opportunity how about taking some photos of the bike and the damage?
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
Hello Julian,
We have it all stripped down now, but thanks for your offers of help, the exhaust has gone off for stripping as it needs re -chroming.
When it comes back, a friend in the trade is going to raise the small dents, then its back to the platers, the other bits I have on order from Mdina they still have a few 125H bits in stock but prices everywhere have been rising recently.
There is slight dent in the tank which was probably made by my knee, but its not cracked the paint so paint less dent removal will be able to ease it out - I hope!
I think this could have been much worse, I was only negotiating a traffic island in the village, could have been doing 65 on the open road, but its something I could have done without and its left me with a few aches and pains, cuts and bruises, oh the joy of motor cycling!
Thanks again for your concerns, I will let you know how I get on with the job, but will be leaving assembly until I get all the damage sorted out, which will probably be around two or three weeks.
Regards
Leonard.
We have it all stripped down now, but thanks for your offers of help, the exhaust has gone off for stripping as it needs re -chroming.
When it comes back, a friend in the trade is going to raise the small dents, then its back to the platers, the other bits I have on order from Mdina they still have a few 125H bits in stock but prices everywhere have been rising recently.
There is slight dent in the tank which was probably made by my knee, but its not cracked the paint so paint less dent removal will be able to ease it out - I hope!
I think this could have been much worse, I was only negotiating a traffic island in the village, could have been doing 65 on the open road, but its something I could have done without and its left me with a few aches and pains, cuts and bruises, oh the joy of motor cycling!
Thanks again for your concerns, I will let you know how I get on with the job, but will be leaving assembly until I get all the damage sorted out, which will probably be around two or three weeks.
Regards
Leonard.
-
julianharty
- Posts: 597
- Joined: 15 May 2016 16:34
- Location: High Wycombe
- Location: High Wycombe Area (Bucks)
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
If all else fails with getting your silencer repaired, new ones are available in stock from Italy https://motostoricheitaliane.com/scaric ... ini-125-h/ I'm guessing that with UK customs and VAT (if they end up being charged) would make the price close to £200, however it's nice to know that they're still available.
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
Aye Leonard,
I hope that you repair and have no lasting complications. The expense of sorting out the damage doesn't sound good, but I hope that you can achieve the quality that you had before the fall. As for the ..........
cyclist, I'll no pass comment on this public forum!
Was going to time my 125H up tonight, took the valve cover off to ensure TDC, then popped a 17mm ring spanner on the end of the cam and gently eased the engine in a clockwise direction and it produced a loud "CLACK" noise from the camshaft area?!?
What the? This happens 4 times in each "Suck, squeeze, bang, blow" cycle and if I try to turn the engine over in an anti-clockwise direction, it locks up solid after about a 20° rotation at the maximum!
My diagnosis is that "something" is in the cam tunnel and whilst it allows clockwise rotation, it is jamming the cam lobes when I try anti-clockwise. I did adjust the valve gear pillows and the rocker arm clearances, before I last despatched the stator to Tony, so I can only assume that I have dropped something down the pushrod tunnels, but what, I haven't a clue and after 9 months I don't remember there being an issue after my adjustments, when I turned the engine over by hand to check my adjustments. Hey ho, another strip down! I'll wear the threads out of the case holes!
I have found that LEDs are available to replace the headlight, rear/stop light, indicator lights and the parking light, the LED indicator relay is a bit of an issue, but solveable. I can pass the info on, if you are interested? Not that myopic, egotistical cyclists give a "Castlemain XXXX" about seeing you. Maybe the straight arm indication, rather than a winking indicator, might have more physical gravitas? I use both on busy roundabouts and do 2 x 360° circuits, if required, to get my bearings.
I hope that you repair well and the bike also.
Good health, Bill
I hope that you repair and have no lasting complications. The expense of sorting out the damage doesn't sound good, but I hope that you can achieve the quality that you had before the fall. As for the ..........
cyclist, I'll no pass comment on this public forum!Was going to time my 125H up tonight, took the valve cover off to ensure TDC, then popped a 17mm ring spanner on the end of the cam and gently eased the engine in a clockwise direction and it produced a loud "CLACK" noise from the camshaft area?!?
What the? This happens 4 times in each "Suck, squeeze, bang, blow" cycle and if I try to turn the engine over in an anti-clockwise direction, it locks up solid after about a 20° rotation at the maximum!My diagnosis is that "something" is in the cam tunnel and whilst it allows clockwise rotation, it is jamming the cam lobes when I try anti-clockwise. I did adjust the valve gear pillows and the rocker arm clearances, before I last despatched the stator to Tony, so I can only assume that I have dropped something down the pushrod tunnels, but what, I haven't a clue and after 9 months I don't remember there being an issue after my adjustments, when I turned the engine over by hand to check my adjustments. Hey ho, another strip down! I'll wear the threads out of the case holes!
I have found that LEDs are available to replace the headlight, rear/stop light, indicator lights and the parking light, the LED indicator relay is a bit of an issue, but solveable. I can pass the info on, if you are interested? Not that myopic, egotistical cyclists give a "Castlemain XXXX" about seeing you. Maybe the straight arm indication, rather than a winking indicator, might have more physical gravitas? I use both on busy roundabouts and do 2 x 360° circuits, if required, to get my bearings.
I hope that you repair well and the bike also.
Good health, Bill
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
In response to my own question in my previous post on this thread:
The clutch plates must be seized solid as operating the clutch didn't free the drive between the engine and the rear wheel. So, manufactured and tempered a suitable screwdriver, to slacken the clutch spring retaining screws, dimensions as shown in the "Blue Manual". Removed the clutch cover, retaining screws, springs and cups and as one unit removed the clutch pressure plate, steel and fibre plates. Problem solved! NO!
The ratchet on the kickstart was still catching, because I had forgotten about Paul Compton's YouTube video and wasn't putting sufficient force through the kickstart lever to take the kickstart cam over centre and clear the two ratchet faces! Once that was done, the spring stayed in place, as demonstrated by Paul in his video and the ratchet teeth cleared, until the kickstart lever was operated, after being given the recommended 15mm to 18mm of preload to the shaft.
Link to Paul Compton's kickstart assembly video: Paul Compton's kickstart assembly video
Now to clean everything up, re-assemble and the try timing up the stator and getting the beastie to run.
Good health, Bill
Having removed the valve gear and pushrods from the 125H and still having the loud "CLACK" noise, I decide to operate the kickstart. UREAKA! No "CLACK" and the engine turned over freely. Engaged 2nd gear and the engine turned over freely when the rear wheel was rotated in a forward direction, but locked up solid when trying to turn the wheel in reverse directionl. "UREAKA!"Was going to time my 125H up tonight, took the valve cover off to ensure TDC, then popped a 17mm ring spanner on the end of the cam and gently eased the engine in a clockwise direction and it produced a loud "CLACK" noise from the camshaft area?!?
The clutch plates must be seized solid as operating the clutch didn't free the drive between the engine and the rear wheel. So, manufactured and tempered a suitable screwdriver, to slacken the clutch spring retaining screws, dimensions as shown in the "Blue Manual". Removed the clutch cover, retaining screws, springs and cups and as one unit removed the clutch pressure plate, steel and fibre plates. Problem solved! NO!
The ratchet on the kickstart was still catching, because I had forgotten about Paul Compton's YouTube video and wasn't putting sufficient force through the kickstart lever to take the kickstart cam over centre and clear the two ratchet faces!
Once that was done, the spring stayed in place, as demonstrated by Paul in his video and the ratchet teeth cleared, until the kickstart lever was operated, after being given the recommended 15mm to 18mm of preload to the shaft.Link to Paul Compton's kickstart assembly video: Paul Compton's kickstart assembly video
Now to clean everything up, re-assemble and the try timing up the stator and getting the beastie to run.
Good health, Bill
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
Aye Leonard,
My apologies for lowering the mood, but after another day of checking the valve timing, checking the ignition timing and swapping my 2 CDI modules over, I still have an engine that starts, runs roughly at a fast tick-over and as soon as the the throttle is opened, cuts out!
Depending upon where I aline the two moulded lines on the pickup coil case, on the stator, to the two stamped lines on the edge of the opening on the rotor, I can achieve a reasonably smooth tickover, but also kickbacks, when staring the engine. I have read your missive and checked the position of my pick coil poles, which align with the timing triggers on the inside of my rotor and are undamaged.
Anthony's (Scootronics) modifications to my pickup coil polarity don't appear to have produced the desired ability to produce an advancing spark from the CDI! Both my original CDI and the blue CDI advocated on the Nederland website and the German Owners club, still produce the same lack of advance.
I intend to have my valve and ignition timing checked by somebody whom I have known and trust to check these things and also contact Tony again to see if I can source an alternative stator/rotor/CDI package, specifically produced for a 125 4 stroke single. Over 20 years of on/off faulty running is just crazy!
I hope that you are healing and not suffering from any long term/lasting damage. No doubt progress on tidying up the 125 will be slow and expensive, but I wish you well and hope that you can return to the road afore the winter.
Good health, Bill
My apologies for lowering the mood, but after another day of checking the valve timing, checking the ignition timing and swapping my 2 CDI modules over, I still have an engine that starts, runs roughly at a fast tick-over and as soon as the the throttle is opened, cuts out!
Depending upon where I aline the two moulded lines on the pickup coil case, on the stator, to the two stamped lines on the edge of the opening on the rotor, I can achieve a reasonably smooth tickover, but also kickbacks, when staring the engine. I have read your missive and checked the position of my pick coil poles, which align with the timing triggers on the inside of my rotor and are undamaged.
Anthony's (Scootronics) modifications to my pickup coil polarity don't appear to have produced the desired ability to produce an advancing spark from the CDI! Both my original CDI and the blue CDI advocated on the Nederland website and the German Owners club, still produce the same lack of advance.
I intend to have my valve and ignition timing checked by somebody whom I have known and trust to check these things and also contact Tony again to see if I can source an alternative stator/rotor/CDI package, specifically produced for a 125 4 stroke single. Over 20 years of on/off faulty running is just crazy!
I hope that you are healing and not suffering from any long term/lasting damage. No doubt progress on tidying up the 125 will be slow and expensive, but I wish you well and hope that you can return to the road afore the winter.
Good health, Bill
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
Hi Bill,
thanks for the info and kind comments, some cyclists are becoming a plague on the roads, I'm not speaking about someone's 12 year old kid riding to school but the licra louts who think they own the road!
Anyway, it will be a slow process but I am determined to get the Morini back to its previous condition. sorry to hear yours will not run but pleased you sorted out the cracking sound.
If its kicking back its overly advanced or one possibility the mixture is too weak, if you review my previous post about lining up the magnetic triggers and the pickup it should resolve things. The triggers in the generator flywheel must be inline with the two silver contacts on the top of the pickup one trigger is for starting and tick over the other for normal running, the change over on mine I think is at about 1200 rpm. I found it was necessary to shim the pickup to align the triggers and pickup. Suspect the shims had been lost over the years. It not easy as the silver lcontacts on the pick up cannot be seen when the rotor is fitted so I had the mark the right hand side as to where the contacts are and also the triggers with white chalk and then shim to get it all in line. Then you have to time the thing, set the timing mark which is the one before TDC and then mover the pickup so that the two lines on the outside align with the two scribed marks on the rotor, that's the base setting, further adjustment may then be required with a strobe.
The ignition system is a piece of junk really, its borrowed from a two- stroke, mine now runs OK but I would certainly like something better, like the one horsepower made but no longer available.
Hope you get there in the end.
Best regards
Leonard.
thanks for the info and kind comments, some cyclists are becoming a plague on the roads, I'm not speaking about someone's 12 year old kid riding to school but the licra louts who think they own the road!
Anyway, it will be a slow process but I am determined to get the Morini back to its previous condition. sorry to hear yours will not run but pleased you sorted out the cracking sound.
If its kicking back its overly advanced or one possibility the mixture is too weak, if you review my previous post about lining up the magnetic triggers and the pickup it should resolve things. The triggers in the generator flywheel must be inline with the two silver contacts on the top of the pickup one trigger is for starting and tick over the other for normal running, the change over on mine I think is at about 1200 rpm. I found it was necessary to shim the pickup to align the triggers and pickup. Suspect the shims had been lost over the years. It not easy as the silver lcontacts on the pick up cannot be seen when the rotor is fitted so I had the mark the right hand side as to where the contacts are and also the triggers with white chalk and then shim to get it all in line. Then you have to time the thing, set the timing mark which is the one before TDC and then mover the pickup so that the two lines on the outside align with the two scribed marks on the rotor, that's the base setting, further adjustment may then be required with a strobe.
The ignition system is a piece of junk really, its borrowed from a two- stroke, mine now runs OK but I would certainly like something better, like the one horsepower made but no longer available.
Hope you get there in the end.
Best regards
Leonard.
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
Aye,
A wee update on the ignition fiasco that is still ongoing with my 125H.
I contacted the MoriniSpecial.it forum based in Italy and a member who is versed in the peculiarities of Italian electrics supplied me with the information that an Italian company was still listing the ignition trigger coil NR P740, with an orange connecting wire, which was the component I required.
Initially my hopes were raised when the supplier said that they could supply me with a NR P740 trigger coil. However, after the boss returned from holiday, they contacted me to say that the component was not available and hadn't been made for a long time. However, they could supply me with the trigger coil NR P741, with a green connecting wire, which is the two stroke trigger coil used in Vespa PX ignition systems and some Lambretta ignition systems, which I refused, on the information that I had received from my contact on the MoriniSpecial forum and my experience from fitting one of these NR P741, green wired coils to my stator. Even though Scootronics were able to change the polarity of Leonard's 125H's wiring and achieved an advancing ignition spark, with a NR P741 coil, the same modification has not resulted in any advance from my stator set up. The MoriniSpecial.it contacts comments are translated in Google and then copied below.
So, I am now setting out to find/create an alternative ignition system for my 125H and will update this thread.
Good health, Bill
A wee update on the ignition fiasco that is still ongoing with my 125H.
I contacted the MoriniSpecial.it forum based in Italy and a member who is versed in the peculiarities of Italian electrics supplied me with the information that an Italian company was still listing the ignition trigger coil NR P740, with an orange connecting wire, which was the component I required.
Initially my hopes were raised when the supplier said that they could supply me with a NR P740 trigger coil. However, after the boss returned from holiday, they contacted me to say that the component was not available and hadn't been made for a long time. However, they could supply me with the trigger coil NR P741, with a green connecting wire, which is the two stroke trigger coil used in Vespa PX ignition systems and some Lambretta ignition systems, which I refused, on the information that I had received from my contact on the MoriniSpecial forum and my experience from fitting one of these NR P741, green wired coils to my stator. Even though Scootronics were able to change the polarity of Leonard's 125H's wiring and achieved an advancing ignition spark, with a NR P741 coil, the same modification has not resulted in any advance from my stator set up. The MoriniSpecial.it contacts comments are translated in Google and then copied below.
So, after having my hopes raised, then lowered, I contacted the Italian supplier, Nuova Ray S.a.I., to see if they had any technical specifications for the NR P740 trigger coil. Their reply was negative, so that the only way to maybe find out the component values of a NR P740 is to disolve the coils potting resin and to hope that the component values can then be diagnosed!I can't measure the resistance of the pick-up now but it wouldn't be useful because it is NOT a simple wound wire! Inside there are two windings connected in antiphase and a PCB with two resistors and two diodes,
you can't fit a Vespa/Lambretta pick-up (with the green wire) because it is completely different and also the polarity of the magnetic expansions of the flywheel (the "beaks") are different so fitting a Vespa stator wouldn't work.
Check the welds of your pick-up, especially the masses, they are a known weak point.
So, I am now setting out to find/create an alternative ignition system for my 125H and will update this thread.Good health, Bill
Re: 125 WITH NO SPARK
Hello Bill,
sorry to hear that you are still having problems with the ignition, you are right in refusing 2 - stroke components as that is where some of the problem arises. The now defunct Ducati system was originally for two stroke scooters rewired for a four stroke engine on the cheap instead of Morini fitting something more suitable. I suppose I have posted at great length on the subject with my own findings so will not repeat it all here. When you say ignition coils are you referring to the wound coil on the stator plate or the transducer/pick up items. I am currently running with one of Antony Tamm's transducers which he builds himself and a German pickup which currently seems OK and as I have said before it is vitally important that the two silver contacts on the pickup are perfectly aligned with the magnetic triggers in the flywheel, this is done with shims. I hope you have some luck with your latest investigations into the matter.
I suppose it would not be beyond impossibility these days to have a new stator plate laser cut and to have new stator coils rewound with all new components, new transducer and pickup possibly an external pickup like Anthony makes and go from there, its just unfortunate that the Horsepower system is no longer available for a 125H which would have solved the problem, possibly we should get the Chinese to build one but there would be no commercial advantage for a manufacturer, when they are churning out 125 bikes like sausages.
sorry to hear that you are still having problems with the ignition, you are right in refusing 2 - stroke components as that is where some of the problem arises. The now defunct Ducati system was originally for two stroke scooters rewired for a four stroke engine on the cheap instead of Morini fitting something more suitable. I suppose I have posted at great length on the subject with my own findings so will not repeat it all here. When you say ignition coils are you referring to the wound coil on the stator plate or the transducer/pick up items. I am currently running with one of Antony Tamm's transducers which he builds himself and a German pickup which currently seems OK and as I have said before it is vitally important that the two silver contacts on the pickup are perfectly aligned with the magnetic triggers in the flywheel, this is done with shims. I hope you have some luck with your latest investigations into the matter.
I suppose it would not be beyond impossibility these days to have a new stator plate laser cut and to have new stator coils rewound with all new components, new transducer and pickup possibly an external pickup like Anthony makes and go from there, its just unfortunate that the Horsepower system is no longer available for a 125H which would have solved the problem, possibly we should get the Chinese to build one but there would be no commercial advantage for a manufacturer, when they are churning out 125 bikes like sausages.