Race ECU running issues

[Curtis]

Currently running race ECU without baffles, just had upgrades (although I dont think they touched the ECU).

On the way home from 3x after upgrades I stalled twice (once at the seven toll bridge - very embarrising with a que of 20 cars behind you) when holding on clutch in 1st. It's happened a few times before but now seems worse.

I am assuming the race ECU was unchanged, fuel consumption or performance hasn't noticeably changed so I think the stalling has got worse from the clutch dragging. ALthough ECU was listed on reciept, I think this refers to the standard ECU which was also supplied.

Has anyone else running the race ECU had the upgrades and noticed any difference?

I have just ordered a Power Commander from the US (for £157 hand carried back to UK) I am hoping will sort out the running issues once and for all).

[Guvo]

Curtis:Good luck,please keep us all posted of your mapping endeavors.It seems that it is quite easy for the fuel injection system to obtain unwanted glitches,either by as I have been informed,revving the motor before the temperature has reached 65 degrees Celsius or just by happenstance.

[morini_tom]

one thought-

as you probably know the race ecu needs the TPS resetting. Might be worth checking whether the tps was reset with the standard ecu in during your service/updates

[tecmoto]

Glen does all the updates at three cross and will have reset the tps if he replaced the ecu, the sticker on the ecu is the give away if it has a large sticker that says morini 001 its standard but with updates if it begins sp it has the correct one for open termi's, if the sticker is small it has the early ecu without updates hope that helps

[Curtis]

Thanks - I'll check tomorrow.

I had the race ECU fitted from new (with open termis) and TPS set.

Not sure if the race ecu was changed during upgrades, or just the standard ECU swapped (also supplied loose with bike for upgrades).

cheers

Rich

[Curtis]

The standard ECU (not fitted) has been swapped to the MORINI 001 version but the race one fitted only appears to have the smaller number.

There may be another label on the ECU somewhere but when fitted only the smaller one is visible.

I'll ring 3X and confirm before taking it off the bike and checking.

[tecmoto]

thats right the race ecu should start sp the standard one is the 001 so it all sounds correct

[nfitz]

Just got back form Germany during which i dropped in to see Alex at MANIAC MOTORS to talk through fitting a CAT free downpipe and PowerComander.

CAT fre is the best bhp per £ as it liberates 8-12bhp at the wheel. BUT a standard ECU is no-longer able to cope as it is expecting correct data from the lambda probe as it works in an "open-loop". So you need to flash the ECU and put on it a "closed loop" map such as the "termi race"map which ignores the Lambda. In doing this all TPS vol drops need re-zeroing.

The PCIII only adds or subtracts fueling data "piggy back" to what comes form the ECU ... so all TPS settins with maps have to be done without PCIII 1st. Then re-set on the dyno when creating a custom map to your bike for each cylinder.

Alex has seen rear wheel variances on standard bikes from Morini from 118-130bhp.

Interestingly the standard Termi made end cans on a CORSARO aparently are themost efficient. So only change the end cans for "noise" not bhp.

I will post the results of my PCIII re map onto a standard ECU also re-maped as closed loop, with CAT free pipes and standard CORSARO end cans. in the next few weeks when Ive got it al up and running.

Cheers Nigel

[Curtis]

Thanks Nigel,

So your saying the race ECU should run de-cat with no problems given a PC3 to compensate fuelling and the TPS reset.

Also, sorry to be picky but I think you have your open and closed loop descriptions reversed.
Closed loop systems require feedback (from lambda) to adjust fuelling.

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor

When the engine is under low-load conditions (such as when accelerating very gently, or maintaining a constant speed), it is operating in 'closed-loop mode'. This refers to a feedback loop between the fuel injectors and the oxygen sensor, to maintain stoichiometric ratio.

Rich

[nfitz]

Curtis - sorry about the mix - you are correct on "open" and closed" loop.

I have yet to get my sandard ECU re-mapped at MANIAC MOTORS to ignore the lambda probe.

So at the moment I am runing a CAT free exhaust on a standard ECU without the PC3

Alex at Maniac confirms that the race Termi map is the corrct base map and once the TPS are zerod on the bike this is the starting point for adding the PC3 and creating a custom map to the bike.

I will update all when I finaly get it all sorted....

[Guvo]

I installed the race ECU and removed the baffles on my Veloce.The bike started then stalled and would not start again,showing a battery icon on the digital dash.No response via the starter button.I took the battery out and trickle charged it for a few hours.Race ECU only for racing, bike will not idle,not conducive for problem free street riding.I put the standard ECU back in leaving the Termi baffles out.Took the bike back to FX Powersports had them remove the errors and remap for standard ECU baffle free.Bike seems to have a little less bottom end but a stronger midrange.love the sound apon downchangers in to corners.Bike stalls apon downchanging at low revs sometimes still. I have red the 1098 Ducati,s have the same characteristic, with stalling.I will leave the Cat in untill 3 year warranty period is over.Would using a Power commander overcome the fueling concerns of low rev stalling? Has anyone had success with power commanders and their fuel maps for their Veloce,s yet.

[franky]

I've got a race ECU and de-baffled termis and it runs better than the std ecu and baffles in or out!

The bike idles well, revs loads better and is the same if not slightly better on fuel. I'm looking at a de-cat but i'm not going to pay £420 for one! I recokon I could get one custom made for £300 tops.

when my new engine is run in i'll get it dynoed and see what the fueling is like...... I reckon if its slightly off for emissions i'll buy a powercommander from the states and fit that.

the enigne seems to be in a late state of tune so there's more there if you want it... just wish I could use what i've got!

[nfitz]

Please dont take my info verbatum and correct.... However, it remains my understanding that there is no diffeence between the standard CORSARO and the VELOCE in the engine/injection system only that the VELOCE comes with a replaceable "race" ECU which ignores the lambda probe info loop to work with the CAT tom comply with euor3 emiissions.
The exhaust end cans on both bikes are Termi items but the VELOCE items are branded termi and have removable baffles....

So if all of the above is correct then the poor low speed running on your VELOCE must be due to a mis match between the race ECU and the baffle free termi which seems odd as sold this way.

My CORSARO has run faultlessly with/without PC3 on its std set-up and with/without CAT downpipes.

I get back my std ECU from germany next week re-mapped to ignore the lambda info (essentialy a race ECU setting) for which i will need to have the TPS re-zeroed. Then the bike can go to a dyno and have the fueling set-up with the PowerComander3 adjusted to suit the standard end cans and CAT free system.

This should happen end October so will keep you posted...

if you get no joy i suggest you contact Alex at ManiacMotors who has set-up many CORSARO's and is extreemly knowledgable about our bikes and speaks good english.

info@maniacmotors.de

Telefonisch unter +49 (0) 911 9694983 oder +49 (0) 177 3030989

Per Fax unter +49 (0) 911 9694983

Per Post:
Maniac Motors
Ofenwerk, Halle 5,
Klingenhofstraße 72
90411 Nürnberg

[franky]

thats right..... however the cans on the veloce are alot more free flowing and smaller/lighter....... the main changes to the veloce is the chassis spec. engine wise they're exactly the same. If you're bike is running rough its caused by poor set up from the dealer.

[nfitz]

Franky - I was surprised (pleasantly) to find form Maniac Motors that the end cans that perform best on a dyno are the standard CORSARO items made by Termi. - hence im not in a rush to change mine as at a track day mine is registering 100db. They have run for customers most systems to come to this conclusion.
Some of the aftermarket items actualy restrict performance in exhange for noise.
If you saw the article in MCN on the MM sports bike due next year with 170bhp they showed the engine in their dyno room and it was using std CORSARO end cans.

These std units are longer and larger to allow good gas flow - the only real detriment is their size and weight - and the noise is not Termi like!

The difference on a VELOCE other than the end cans and race ECU (i may be wrong) is the colour schemes available, Ohlins rear shock, foot pegs in a lighter cast material (not different geometry), radial clutch cylinder, front forks anodised in a different finish....

I'm not sure about the wheels if they are cast in a lighter material or not?