Relays part two

[Dave]

Spoke to 3X and they said that the relays in the nosecone of an 06 Corsaro were connected to the fuelling. I ordered and received two relays and installed them in the bike and hey presto one happy bunny. Twentyone miles later and I have a sick bike. Symptons are a refusal to run low revs but above 5000 it will go. Plugs, lambda sensor and exhaust thick with black dry soot and fuel consumption of 10MPG, I nursed the bike home six miles and parked it. Tomorrow I will get the relays tested. The question is WHAT IS causing them to fail? One suggestion that ive been told is that the fuel pump pressure return thingy would result in excessive fuel use and another has sugested that the regulator is knackered causing a power surge to fry the relays. Electricity is tastless, odourless and invisable and im lost within this black art and im also down £50.

[twisty]

try a bottle of wynns dry fuel in the tank. If you have water it won't pass the filter and needs to be emulsified to pass through.

I had similar symptoms early on and it was like hitting your head against a brick wall trying to isolate faults.

I had rough running, bike wouldn't start , when eventually running , plugs and lamba would just soot up and the only way to get it to idle was above 4000 revs. Normally it takes a full pack of wynns dry fuel to clear the system and a good run with a lot of revving. Water in fuel can be mistaken for a faulty ecu ,failing spark plugs , or failing coils as you can find the engine will keep on stalling or running with a misfire and jerky without slipping the clutch. But if you check the headers usually you will find they are all hot but by then the plugs and lamba will be sooted up .

Not saying this is your problem but jet washes can put water in the tank through the filler cap.(speaking from experience)

Took a lot of revving to clear the new fuel with the wynns through the system.
It's an easy £5 to spend and you never kow it may work

If both spark plugs are sooty it's probably not the coils as usually when a coil fails it's just one and the other plug will be ok.

if that doesn't work try checking the lamba sensor is working properly as that's controlling the fuelling.
have a look at the air filter as well.

Hope you get if fixed without spending too much money.

[Dave]

Relays checked out fine, another brick wall. Thinking hard about my time of ownership I recall that the bike had a habit of stalling which I put down to the nature of the beast. The problem would manifest itself when I shut the throtle coming up to say a junction. On Wednesday night the bike was going extremly well and as I shut it down for a junction it died. This is what happened a month ago. Now apart from cleaning plugs and lambda sensor the relays could be a red herring and the significant change could have been lifting the fuel tank thus positioning water or crud at the back of the tank and then a full tank of fuel sloshing forward as I shut it down from high speed is beginning to make sense to me. How say you ?

[twisty]

The symptoms sound like dirty fuel. The injectors will be farting like mad, so when you come to a junction , shut the revs off she will die like a stone.

After you put in the dry fuel it may be a pig to start as you need to get the mix going through the injectors but especiallly the fuel filter as an emulsion. The water still has to go through the combustion process so it will run rough for a while. Make sure the bikes warm then rev the arse off it , the neighbours will love you .

Good idea to fit new plugs as it will make it easier to keep running initially or just clean , dry and preheat them with a blow torch before putting back. You only need to do this if the plugs are really fouled as they will just wet out.

I'll bet your last dollar its water or crud.

Isopropyl alcohol is a major ingredient in "gas dryer" fuel additives. In significant quantities, water is a problem in fuel tanks, as it separates from the gasoline, and can freeze in the supply lines at cold temperatures. It does not remove water from gasoline; rather, the alcohol solubilizes water in gasoline. Once soluble, water does not pose the same risk as insoluble water as it will no longer accumulate in the supply lines and freeze. Isopropyl alcohol is often sold in aerosol cans as a windscreen de-icer.
Don't put fuel injector cleaner in as i've found although it lubricates injectors etc it will not get rid of the water as good as wynns dry fuel. If you have access to isopropol alchohol it is the same thing.

If you are stuck a quarter litre of meths in the tank will do the same thing.




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[DaveH]

Agree with the water/fuel debate, but can't see why this would give such a low MPG figure - 10MPG !!! my Iveco 7.5 tonner does more than that !!

Interesting thread though. I had similar low speed problems after cleaning out my airbox when I first got the bike. Never thought about the 'tilted tank' issue, but will now probably remove it altogether and clean it out properly and replace the fuel filter (while I can still get one !)

For info, a proper throttle body synch has now sorted the stalling problem - it's important to screw both TB screws COMPLETELY SHUT before synching. The TB's are then synched to the LOWER of the two readings by screwing the higher reading TB adjusting screw OUT until the readings are the same.

Not like any other bike I've worked on this --- one TB screw should always be fully shut.

Bike still runs rich though - mates following complain of fumes and I get off after a ride with the minging jacket syndrome....still goes like f**k though.

Am looking into fitting a Motty AFR over winter to finally sort all the fuelling problems, There is no off the shelf package at the moment though so have been speaking to Tamas at Motty regarding tailoring it for the Morini. Mainly sorted apart from speed sensor and some electrical connections.

Dave H

[twisty]

DaveH

So how easy is the throttle body synhronisation to do.

I know in the old days of carbs it was the old vacuum tube dials

[DaveH]

DaveH

So how easy is the throttle body synhronisation to do.

I know in the old days of carbs it was the old vacuum tube dials

Hi Tom...

dead easy....I use a conventional Morgan Carbtune - the mercury one, not the latest 'improved' stainless rods version...I've got both and believe me the new one is utter crap compared to the mercury version...(thats progress for you..but at leat the new one is environmentally friendly ..lol)

I have fitted brass vacuum take off spigots permanently to the inlet tracts and put blanked off rubber hoses ( same length) onto each so I can easily connect the Carbtune...I have run these along the frame tubes so they cant be seen when not needed....synching is just a matter of running the bike up to temp and balancing the Tb's like any other conventional bike...you can even access the TB adjusting screws via removeable plugs in the airbox once the tank is tilted.

Screw em both (gently) shut, start the bike and adjust the one pulling the highest vacuum till it matches the one pulling the lowest vacuum (ie undo it a bit)...job done

Dave H

[Dave]

Relays a complete red herring and with the aid of a spark we have identified them as low beam,high beam and cooling fan,nothing to do with fuelling as a Morini dealership had told me. Fuel tank emptied and guess what NO water or crud. Fuel pump removed and all looks well. Any accessable connections checked nothing to report. Next step is to get a van a take to my nearest Ducati mechanic and get it pluged into a computer hopefully the machine will give us the answer. Thanks for all your suggestions guys it has been an interesting journey.

[twisty]

hope you get if fixed without too much money being paid out.

[corsaro chris]

It is just possible that the problem relates to faulty stepper motor or dirty throttle bodies.

My Corsaro had starting problems and would stall on occassiosn as described. The Morini is also sensitive to software; some dealers have the proper software on the PC, which gives a far richer picture than the standard one size fits all...

The perils of owning a specialised machine!

Hope that you get it fixed this side of winter,

CC

[vtxbrit]

I had a similar problem with my Veloce about a 18 months ago it ran like a dog spitting and coughing, and kept stalling......... took it to Richard Tecmoto (unfortunately not operating at present) and he went straight to the throttle bodies and showed me small bypass hole just above the throttle flaps he explained that with modern petrol’s going off allot quicker creating a gooey film and because the bike had been standing for a while they were totally blocked he spent a good time with nozzle cleaners slowly unblocking the holes, checked they were synced and he presto a reliable smooth running bike which starts om the button everytime.
vtxbrit