Ducatidiag (JpDiag) great news, and questions

[günni]

So here is my first question.
Is it possible to do this on the bench with the ECU powered by a 12 supply or does it need to to be installed into the bike?
I suspect doing it on the bench is OK as I cant see manufacturers loading blank ECU's into vehicles and then loading them on the production, maybe wrong.

hi chips,
for you it`s easier to install the race-ecu into the bike. you can do it on the bench too, but therefor you need some more cable and the small ecu-pins are very sensitive.
i have built a special harness with help of an old ducati-harness and can do the load on a bench.

P1090304.JPG (219.73 KiB) Viewed 36065 times

I will be doing the load soon, but can I save the contents onto my PC of the so called Race ECU?
Hope these questions are not too inane, Thanks.

"yes, we can"
you can save your race-file with IAW5xReader from the guzzidiag-site. he generates a bin-file of your race-map.
but there is no need to do that. we have all the maps in our database.
try ebis map and you want no other any longer

regards
günni

[MisterMorini]

Dear Gunni and Guy.
The cables arrived today and it's all becoming as clear as mud.
Prolific is a manufacturer as is the the mnemonic FTDI.
One cable is a USB to serial port converter and the other is a serial port to ECU adapter.

So here is my first question.
Is it possible to do this on the bench with the ECU powered by a 12 supply or does it need to to be installed into the bike?
I suspect doing it on the bench is OK as I cant see manufacturers loading blank ECU's into vehicles and then loading them on the production, maybe wrong.

I will be doing the load soon, but can I save the contents onto my PC of the so called Race ECU?
Hope these questions are not too inane, Thanks.

Hi Chips,
If you want to build your own off-bike connector then you can find the instructions here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/orvozb
just download the PDF. The instructions are from the old Ducatidiag forum but the physical connection is the same for all software.
Nevertheless, it is easier doing it on the bike an if you are new to this I'd strongly recommend getting used to the procedure of hooking things up and working with the software before tinkering with off-bike connectors. To be honest, I haven't done it myself as I was keeping it for the dark winter days and my second ECU and like Gunni says, the pins are quite delicate.

About ECU types: there's no hardware difference between the so called Race ECU and the standard one. Both are regulare IAW5 units and the only difference is the map that is flashed onto it. In my bike I didn't bother swapping ECU and it is a bit delicate too with these connectors and lots of small pins. I simply wrote a new map and that's it. My second ECU I'm keeping as and insurance policy ... just in case.

Regarding the serial chips: these are integrated circuits that convert an old-style serial bus to USB which allows connecting the cable to your PC. There's nothing fancy about it, just that it is a part used by the cable manufacturers to achieve that goal. Problem is that they don't all work as good and that there are counterfeit items on the market. Your PC needs software drivers for these chips aka IC and normally windows recognizes them and installs them automatically. However some of the manufacturer's latest drivers contain extra security that on purpose disallows the proper functioning with counterfeit items. And you've guessed it, usually from Chinese origins. Not that all that comes from China is bad. I guess that almost all cables come from China anyway but something to look our for. Anyhow, you should have discovered what chip it has by now. How to discover in windows: control panel -> device manager -> you should be able to see a virtual COM port when the cable is inserted (COM & LPT) -> select it -> right-click and select properties -> TAB driver shows manufacturer. Between parenthesis it should show the COM port number in use. That's the one that Guzzidiag needs to be configured with (but it seems to detect that port "automagically" too). These instructions are just in case that it doesn't work out-of-the box.

When you connect up the cables make sure to connect the red 12V crocodile clamp as shown here:

Connecting it to the battery connector under the buddy may harm the ECU due to voltage spike when starting the engine. Better to be safe than sorry.

Rgds
Guy

[günni]

When you connect up the cables make sure to connect the red 12V crocodile clamp as shown here:

Connecting it to the battery connector under the buddy may harm the ECU due to voltage spike when starting the engine. Better to be safe than sorry.

Rgds
Guy

i choose a smarter way

amp-connector with pin

kabel_1.jpg (48.19 KiB) Viewed 36055 times

the pimped fiat-adapter-cable for the 12V-connector under the rear-seat of the corsaro

kabel_2.jpg (61.09 KiB) Viewed 36055 times

[MisterMorini]

I made a small adapter cable for that instead, also using AMP. I use it when reading or writing the ECU to be sure of a reliable mechanical connection.
The crocodile clamps are firmly connecting to the eyes at the end of the wires. I made them different lengths so that they can't touch inadvertently.


I considered doing what you did but in the end I didn't want to remove the crocodile clamp and preferred keeping the possibility doing it the ARMPAS way when I plan to fire up the engine.

On the Dutch forum there's a document (one of the editors is MonstroMorini) that explains about the whole procedure and warns for voltage spikes on the battery connector when firing up the engine. I'm not sure if it really makes any difference but didn't want to take the risk.

[Chips1953]

This threads caption isGreat News. Well thanks to Guy and Gunni I can say so as well.
I installed the "race ECU", which also had written on it "Termignoni", into the bike and started her up. (My bike is fitted with them.)
Difficult to keep going and a dreadful smell of unburnt fuel together with black spray all over my garage door.
So having run through the procedure a couple of times it was time to give it a go.I had to extend the positive cable on the adaptor to reach the connector under the front of the tank.
A blue light glows when power is supplied to the USB converter.
Once everything was connected I ran the Guzzidiag programme in ernest and all was self explanatory. The file EBi uploaded after the ECU was cleared and Bob's your uncle. I switched the ignition off, disconnected the cables and fired the old girl up.
Nay Bother, smooth as you like, what a difference.
Many thanks for this, everybody involved. I will test ride the bike ASAP and report back, definitely the fuel is being burnt now, so it's not over fuelled.

[günni]

Nay Bother, smooth as you like, what a difference.

hi chips,
please take a look at tps! if necessary (correctly when 2,6-2,7), make a reset with ducatidiag or guzzidiag. guzzidiag works without a registration.
if you have got a cle.lic-key from JP ( http://jpl250rs.perso.sfr.fr/jpdiag/jpdiag.php ) i would prefer ducatidiag.
than you should have a look at the co-trimmer too. put it first way on "+5" to "+10" negative direction = lean mixture
positive direction = fat mixture. therefor the engine has to run and watertemperature must have more than 40°.

sorry for my old school english but i hope you understand what i mean ...

[Chips1953]

than you should have a look at the co-trimmer too. put it first way on "+5" to "+10" negative direction = lean mixture
positive direction = fat mixture. therefor the engine has to run and watertemperature must have more than 40°.

Hi Gunni
I am going to have to understand this a little more, sorry.
Is this like rejetting a carburettor? will I have to keep trying the bike under road conditions to find the optimum setting for the mixture or is there a specific setting?
I have no problem with your English I speak German after a fashion but you certainly write your English well.

How to reset the TPS (throttle position sensor) with Guzzidiag please? would help.

Or is there a site I can look up?
Tchus.

I have been looking at this today and loaded up Ducatidiag, where I can see TPS and CO trimmer.
So I guess I just connect the PC back onto the ECU and just hit RESET for the TPS and fill in numbers such as 10 etc for the CO trimmer.
Why do I need the licence, will it ask for one when I try to reset?
I dont seem to have a blue button in Ducatidiag.
Sorry about this, it must seem so langweilig.
OK
Took the laptop out to the garage and set it up. Ran Ducatidiag and got data. Whooooaaaa!
Did a reset on the TPS, running at 2.6 but seems to fluctuate up to 2.8 and even 3.0, vibration possibly, but mostly at 2.6
Engine temp 89, Lambda is 0, is this because the EBi map has cut it out? Advance base is 20.4 whatever that means, advance timing?
Now to see what happens with the CO trimmer

[MisterMorini]

On GuzziDiag the TPS reset can be found in the menu under 'view' -> 'Actors'.
A window will open with a set of large buttons the second from the bottom is 'Injector or Injection Reset or Calibration'. Sorry, have no access now to verify the correct terminology but you'll see. TPS reset is done with the twist grip completely closed and the engine OFF. When returning back to the main screen the shown TPS value should be 2.7° and stable (engine OFF).

CO trim is also via the menu 'view' -> 'CO trim'. Indeed it is a matter of increasing the value until you see what you want. Myself and several other people are running Ebi's map with CO=0. Seems to work just fine. + values make the mixture richer, - values leaner. Some people reduce it stepwise while make test runs in between to see whether the bike still runs fine. With this map it should run smoothly so if it doesn't you need to increase a little.

The CO trim (or idle trim) is effective from idle to around 3000 rpm. However I understand that it is a small offset on the injection duration and somewhat affects the whole map. The reason why in practice it is more effective on the low revs is because the injection times are much shorter there. Increasing it too much will again have an effect on fuel consumption.

Ducatidiag is a great tool as well and a little user friendlier than GuzziDiag. It's all a matter of habit I guess. TPS resest you have already found. Do it the same way, thottle fully closed and engine OFF. CO trim is a little more secure in the sense that you can set the value, 'test' it and 'confirm' within 5 secs to write it to the ECU.
For Ducatidiag to fully function you need to register your ECU on the web site. That said, I'm on old user of Ducatidiag and I don't know if the procedure changed since the web-site was renewed.

Tip: for both Ducatidiag and Guzzidiag there are little demo movies on youtube.

[Chips1953]

CO trim is also via the menu 'view' -> 'CO trim'. Indeed it is a matter of increasing the value until you see what you want. Myself and several other people are running Ebi's map with CO=0. Seems to work just fine. + values make the mixture richer, - values leaner.

Well that's all done, my CO trim was set to 10+ so have reduced it to 0.
I have received my licence from JP, good man.
The TPS is now 2.6 and all's well with world, so far. I have to try the bike next.

I want to thank you guys again and hope this information has been of use to not only me, but others on the forum.

[MisterMorini]

Hello Chips
Enjoy your bike in Cumbria ... and everywhere else of course
In fact a couple of years ago I've been passing through Carlisle on my way to the Homestead fort On Hadrian's wall.
Have been riding in the Lake district and the Yorkshire Dales too. Was a bit wet at times but still loads of fun.
Going up a steep hill in the Lake District to another old Roman fort was where I decided that I needed a bike with a lot more torque it took some time to find the right bike but eventually I stumbled on the Morini
Cheers
Guy

[günni]

aaah, all problems already solved. very good, thank you guy

yes, ducatidiag is much more user-friendly than guzzidiag. but both have the same features.
@guy, the cle.lic-file works with the new JPdiag too. the procedure is the same like former times.

chips, with the CO-trim you have to "play" a little bit. i would start with "+10" and then i would reduce it step by step.
my corsaro runs with +10 better than with 0. the corsaro of a friend needs +20 with the same map.
it is not so easy to generalize the input. it depends a little bit of your own morini.

so chips, have much fun with ebis map
günni

[Chips1953]

Took the Corsaro out yesterday for a test ride into the Borders, A508 Selkirk to Moffat.
That instant switch type acceleration is gone from the initial movement of the twist grip, there is a smoother increase in power for a short time, the torque that was there before is a more manageable, but still there.
When keeping to a constant speed there was now no surging forward and backwards with minute movements of the throttle. Roll off is less aggressive, it's now not like using the brakes.
Anyway, I feel easier on the bike now, it's smoother overall but still has that urgency when you feel like using it, possibly too often. It was wet yesterday and the A508 goes through several wooded areas leaves needing care.
So no increase in fuel consumption, 150 miles, but perhaps a little less 42 mpg using Super Unleaded.
Less stress, controlling the acceleration, at slow speeds.
These are my impressions if you do the re-map you will have to decide if it feels OK for you.
Now then, what can we do about arthritis in the hands on cold days please.

[MisterMorini]

I couldn't describe it better, my experience too.

I see that you are running open exhausts but this map being of German origins where it is mandatory to ride with the DB-killers inserted (the police is more strict about those things there) may be a little on the lean side especially at the lower revs. You could probably benefit like Gunni says from more CO trim on the + side.
You could also try just with DB-killers and see how you fare. The map has the word 'race' in its name because it was derived from a race map but it has been seriously leaned down for street use.

Concerning the arthritis, some handguards from Acerbis (dual-road) may do the job but they are a bit difficult to mount. Yet, I know of some people on other forums who have done it.

See a photo of a mat-black Morini on page 1 of the Dutch forum: http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/list_messages/359446

[MickeyMoto]

The db killers are compulsory in Germany so the Americans can listen to the mobile phone conversations....

[günni]

The db killers are compulsory in Germany so the Americans can listen to the mobile phone conversations....

ha ha, great

concerning arthritis, i use cartridge heaters in my bar ends. i wrote an installation report for coolride.
but sorry, it is in german click

@chips....guy is right, db killer should be installed for the ebi-map
by the way, it is a modified version of the ebi-map available. if interested, send an email to me or guy

saluti
günni