I'm trying to get the electric start on my Coguaro to work without sounding like a bag of spanners. I got hold of a spare sprag clutch and found that it had a thrust bearing between the two parts of the assembly. This was not present on mine. I put it in but there are now too many components and the cover will not sit down on reassembly.
Has anyone got an exploded drawing of the starter so I can see if I am trying to put too many bits back in the hole?
If not anyone have experience of this or possibly some photos?
John.
Coguaro Electric Start
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morini_tom
- Posts: 1046
- Joined: 05 May 2006 13:47
- Location: Northampton
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Hi John,
yes, there should be a thrust bearing in there. I have put the exploded diagram and parts list from the dart manual on the morini club site at the following links:
http://www.morini-riders-club.com/photo ... ploded.jpg
http://www.morini-riders-club.com/photo ... _parts.jpg
The starter is a bit fiddly to get back in, easiest way is to guide it in as a complete assembly, and keep a magnet on a stick handy as it's easy to drop the washers & thrust bearings off the back of the shaft.
Make sure that the rubber coupling is in good condition, they tend to break up and then block oil passages!
Hope that helps, and good luck!
Tom
yes, there should be a thrust bearing in there. I have put the exploded diagram and parts list from the dart manual on the morini club site at the following links:
http://www.morini-riders-club.com/photo ... ploded.jpg
http://www.morini-riders-club.com/photo ... _parts.jpg
The starter is a bit fiddly to get back in, easiest way is to guide it in as a complete assembly, and keep a magnet on a stick handy as it's easy to drop the washers & thrust bearings off the back of the shaft.
Make sure that the rubber coupling is in good condition, they tend to break up and then block oil passages!
Hope that helps, and good luck!
Tom
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Thanks Tom!!!
It was a bit of a Morecombe and Wise moment 'All the right parts just not necessarily in the right order'! I had the thrust washer in the wrong place (on the outside) and it all makes sense now. It was that way when I took it apart on the rebuild so it had been that way for some time.
I have replaced the rubber drive with NLM's ally pieces which do the job nicely and yes the original rubber one was a mess!!
John.
It was a bit of a Morecombe and Wise moment 'All the right parts just not necessarily in the right order'! I had the thrust washer in the wrong place (on the outside) and it all makes sense now. It was that way when I took it apart on the rebuild so it had been that way for some time.
I have replaced the rubber drive with NLM's ally pieces which do the job nicely and yes the original rubber one was a mess!!
John.
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Not a resurrection of the thread but a continuation after some time!!
I have to rebuild the Coguaro at some stage - oil pump drive not driving and it seems to have trashed the big ends. Found the oil pump drive nut was spinning free on the crank. In investigating I found that the NLM ally plate replacements had fretted in use and were a bit slack. I've drawn up the profile of the ally plates in 3D and investigated cost of printing in Nylon 11. I just wonder if this will be mechanically strong enough seeing as the original rubber gunk was restrained by a 2mm metal form.
Any thoughts from the more mechanically/design minded people? If I do go ahead and get some printed anyone interested?
John.
I have to rebuild the Coguaro at some stage - oil pump drive not driving and it seems to have trashed the big ends. Found the oil pump drive nut was spinning free on the crank. In investigating I found that the NLM ally plate replacements had fretted in use and were a bit slack. I've drawn up the profile of the ally plates in 3D and investigated cost of printing in Nylon 11. I just wonder if this will be mechanically strong enough seeing as the original rubber gunk was restrained by a 2mm metal form.
Any thoughts from the more mechanically/design minded people? If I do go ahead and get some printed anyone interested?
John.
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morini_tom
- Posts: 1046
- Joined: 05 May 2006 13:47
- Location: Northampton
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
John,
It would all depend upon the mechanical properties of your proposed material.
I do have one brand new original cush. It is not for sale as it is in my dart’s lifeline box, and the dart can sometimes spit back and give the starter a pummelling so I don’t doubt I’ll need it before long.
However, if you can find somewhere to make copies I don’t mind lending it for non destructive copying.
I would have thought that the best way would be to have a batch moulded from rubber like the originals. Worst case maybe just the rubber parts, which could then be inserted into an original steel backing, although ideally we would collect as many original broken ones as possible and then have new rubbers cast onto the original steels.
The original rubber is pretty hard (nothing like the goop that’s sometimes comes out when they fail). I wonder if a manufacturer who makes engine mounts would be well placed for this sort of thing?
If we are really lucky, maybe Gary D will be along shortly with a view
It would all depend upon the mechanical properties of your proposed material.
I do have one brand new original cush. It is not for sale as it is in my dart’s lifeline box, and the dart can sometimes spit back and give the starter a pummelling so I don’t doubt I’ll need it before long.
However, if you can find somewhere to make copies I don’t mind lending it for non destructive copying.
I would have thought that the best way would be to have a batch moulded from rubber like the originals. Worst case maybe just the rubber parts, which could then be inserted into an original steel backing, although ideally we would collect as many original broken ones as possible and then have new rubbers cast onto the original steels.
The original rubber is pretty hard (nothing like the goop that’s sometimes comes out when they fail). I wonder if a manufacturer who makes engine mounts would be well placed for this sort of thing?
If we are really lucky, maybe Gary D will be along shortly with a view
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Hi Tom,
I do have an original from my Dart and also a spare bare unit so I've got enough bits to experiment.
Regarding the material Nylon 11 is apparently OK for the oily environment my only concern is that when engaged the resultant 'squeeze' from the two rotating create a force on the wedge which could make it break away. More investigation required!!
I'll keep you posted (I'll put it on the list along with replacement Dart fairing panels!!).
John.
I do have an original from my Dart and also a spare bare unit so I've got enough bits to experiment.
Regarding the material Nylon 11 is apparently OK for the oily environment my only concern is that when engaged the resultant 'squeeze' from the two rotating create a force on the wedge which could make it break away. More investigation required!!
I'll keep you posted (I'll put it on the list along with replacement Dart fairing panels!!).
John.
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
John,
Just a word of warning, I have seen a case (in fact I bought the bike) where NLM's ally pieces, as you describe them. were fitted and had failed badly, wrecking the engine in the process. Be very careful!!
Just a word of warning, I have seen a case (in fact I bought the bike) where NLM's ally pieces, as you describe them. were fitted and had failed badly, wrecking the engine in the process. Be very careful!!
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Sorry John,
Just read the thread more thoroughly and realized that you already know the NLM ally things are not up to the job.
Just read the thread more thoroughly and realized that you already know the NLM ally things are not up to the job.
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Unos amigos mios en España estaban discutiendo ... oh shit, sorry 
Some spanish friends of mine were discussing the same subject some time ago. One thing seems to be that originally these 6 "rubberpieces" were vulcanised together on a metal plate or something like that. So one cuestion is if 6 solo pieces could do it as well. The probably most important question is the material. Pedro (not the one here
) was sugesting Vulcolan 90 SH that should bear very high pressures. It is not easy to mecanize. To his opinion it could help to freeeze it down before mecanizing. Perhaps water jet cutting is the way to go. There are rumors that Lambertini once was mentioning that this material was used by Cagiva in the beginning and then they changed to that black stuff that tends to dissolve itself.
Have a look at the datas of this Vulcolan 90SH, it may be worth a try All the Dart-, Coguaro- and other extern-starter-morini- drivers all over the world have the same problem with this shock-absorbers that can become a real big trouble.
I myself do not have any starter of this anymore. The two I had I donated to some friends who had problems with their legs and were about to quit with morinidriving.
good luck!
norbert
Some spanish friends of mine were discussing the same subject some time ago. One thing seems to be that originally these 6 "rubberpieces" were vulcanised together on a metal plate or something like that. So one cuestion is if 6 solo pieces could do it as well. The probably most important question is the material. Pedro (not the one here
) was sugesting Vulcolan 90 SH that should bear very high pressures. It is not easy to mecanize. To his opinion it could help to freeeze it down before mecanizing. Perhaps water jet cutting is the way to go. There are rumors that Lambertini once was mentioning that this material was used by Cagiva in the beginning and then they changed to that black stuff that tends to dissolve itself.Have a look at the datas of this Vulcolan 90SH, it may be worth a try
All the Dart-, Coguaro- and other extern-starter-morini- drivers all over the world have the same problem with this shock-absorbers that can become a real big trouble.I myself do not have any starter of this anymore. The two I had I donated to some friends who had problems with their legs and were about to quit with morinidriving.
good luck!
norbert
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Thanks for the info Norbert!
I did a simple google on the material and this came up - a few interesting items
http://www.motomoriniclub.com/lamb/indicelambertini.php
I'll carry on hunting and let you know of the progress.
John.
I did a simple google on the material and this came up - a few interesting items
http://www.motomoriniclub.com/lamb/indicelambertini.php
I'll carry on hunting and let you know of the progress.
John.
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
A good job this thread had the exploded drawings because I decided to have a look at mine, the bike was on the side stand. You can guess what happened next.
Anyhow it is dead easy to end up with a lot of bearings and washers in a muddle. I figured it out eventually but had to use a magnet more than once. Thankfully all OK for now.
John
Anyhow it is dead easy to end up with a lot of bearings and washers in a muddle. I figured it out eventually but had to use a magnet more than once. Thankfully all OK for now.
John
Re: Coguaro Electric Start
Even better, there was a just audible whine before and now it has gone.I have fixed something by accident.Hoorah!