camel gearing

Camel, Sahara, Kanguro, Coguaro
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huub
Posts: 194
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 15:11

camel gearing

Post by huub »

Hi all,

anyone managed to fit a taller gearing to a 1980 500 camel?
i took the camel on a camping trip, but sitting a 90 km/h is pretty boring.
i am used to running the 350 at 110 km/h, but the 350 feels like having a taller gearing
'It must be a .....'
Posts: 365
Joined: 12 Sep 2010 12:25

Re: camel gearing

Post by 'It must be a .....' »

Hi, sounds a bit slow, what sprockets/gearing are you using?
See topic viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5420&p=29076&hilit= ... ing#p29076
3potjohn
Posts: 1243
Joined: 02 Jun 2007 13:58
Location: Devon

Re: camel gearing

Post by 3potjohn »

This is topical as I have been looking to try a 520 42 tooth rear on a Coguaro. Rear disc so should work. Its a 4 bolt sprocket. I did contact B and C in November but as yet I have drawn a blank ( could not resist). If anyone can help I would be interested.
John
'It must be a .....'
Posts: 365
Joined: 12 Sep 2010 12:25

Re: camel gearing

Post by 'It must be a .....' »

John, the 501 Camel/350 Kanguro has a different rear hub (disc) to the Cagiva influenced 501/350 Coguaro.

And uses either a 46 or 44 tooth 520 sprocket with 5 mounting bolts.
The sprocket carrier has the same sprocket dimensions as the road bikes which used 40,42 or 44 sprockets (530) which can be used with a 530 gearbox sprocket. There are also 520 versions of the road sprockets available.

So it looks like you'll have to get the 42 tooth sprocket made for your hub, unless you can find one from another Cagiva of the same era?
3potjohn
Posts: 1243
Joined: 02 Jun 2007 13:58
Location: Devon

Re: camel gearing

Post by 3potjohn »

I give them a ring every month, to get an update but what with the restrictions etc it is not mission critical.
John
huub
Posts: 194
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 15:11

Re: camel gearing

Post by huub »

hi ,

Gearing on my camel is stock 14/46 ( actually the sprockets are still the originals)
apparently i might go back to 14/44 but the difference is pretty marginal...
3potjohn
Posts: 1243
Joined: 02 Jun 2007 13:58
Location: Devon

Re: camel gearing

Post by 3potjohn »

Mine is 14/46 so whilst the acceleration is marvellous a prolonged road journey is not the best.
John
Steve Brown
Posts: 1390
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
Location: Leicestershire

Re: camel gearing

Post by Steve Brown »

Huub! Check your messages! I sent you another about the stator!
As for your gearing question, it may be worth checking what primary drive gear ratio the Camels have. As my Camel bitsa uses a 500W engine that came with taller gearing than the 350s, so on advice from Ian on here, I swapped the primary gears set from a 350 to my 500W/Camel and that gave me the result I needed.
As the Camels were the first to get a 6 speed versnellingsbak (love that word) I wonder if they also had the 350 primary fitted? I'm sure when I looked into the differences between a 5 and 6 speed gearbox the 6 speed also had a lower overall ratio? Could be my memory playing tricks though??
If the 500W primary gears do raise the ratio then a tooth or two off the rear sprocket and you'll be inventing the air-cooled Morini ADV bike :wink:
Last edited by Steve Brown on 01 Apr 2021 18:27, edited 1 time in total.
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
'It must be a .....'
Posts: 365
Joined: 12 Sep 2010 12:25

Re: camel gearing

Post by 'It must be a .....' »

Hi Hubb
Camel ratios are: 1:3.10/1:1.92/1:1.47/1:1.21/1:1.05/1:0.95 Which is the same as 6 speed 500 Sports, 501 Camels etc.
The 5 speed ratios are: 1:2.23/1:1.47/1:10/1:91/1:79
Both use the same 31/62 primary gears.

Steve's too high gearing angst was the opposite

Yet on the standard gearing a 500 Camel will happily cruise all day at 65/75 mph, which I've never had a problem with.

True the 501 Camel's gearing feels more relaxed at speed and probably the best compromise but if you take it too far the lower gears will be useless for off road riding.

But the real limiting factor for sustained higher speeds is really the riding position.
Steve Brown
Posts: 1390
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
Location: Leicestershire

Re: camel gearing

Post by Steve Brown »

Thanks Ian for the reminder. I've just edited my post too. I'd put 350 where I meant to say 500W in the final paragraph. The change in the primary ratios did make a useful difference in my case of wanting a lower overall ratio. I think it's probably still a little higher than the original Camels had but it's good enough. (it's still got the 5 speed cluster of course)
I do think if Huub fitted a primary from a 500W he would be able to notice the lower revs at road speeds. I'm keeping my high ratio primary gears in case I ever want to make my Camel more of an adventure bike and ride across Africa. :)
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
huub
Posts: 194
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 15:11

Re: camel gearing

Post by huub »

i do have a 500 5 speed primary gear set in the pile of parts somwhere, doing 75 MPH on mine is not going to happen , by that time the valves are close to bouncing
i think the rev limiter on the camel is set to 8500 rpm, i can rev it to see where it stops,
but honestly my 350 with 38/14 gearing feels more at ease on the highway.
'It must be a .....'
Posts: 365
Joined: 12 Sep 2010 12:25

Re: camel gearing

Post by 'It must be a .....' »

The 500 5 speed and 6 speed primary gears are the same so no point in changing them. It's the ratios within the gearbox that are different.

So two potential solutions could be either a wire wheel rear hub from a road Morini yet the brake drum is on the opposite side or fit a 5 speed gearbox with it's taller gear ratios.
Another possibility is the rear tyre, some are a much larger in diameter even though they are all 4-00 x 18
e.g. The new Continental TKC70 is a lot bigger than most (especially the Metzeler Enduro 2)

I understand your concern about the engine feeling busy at speed; over the years we have done many 400 - 600 mile journeys in a day and mostly on motorways. 500 Camels feel best cruising at 65 to 70 mph with occasional 70 plus bursts for fun or to avoid traffic situations.

My 500 5 speed road Morini was more relaxed at speed but I always felt the gearing was a little too high as it was rubbish to ride with a passenger.

Have fun and take care, Ian
Steve Brown
Posts: 1390
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
Location: Leicestershire

Re: camel gearing

Post by Steve Brown »

Hang on a minute Ian!- It was you who suggested it to me and I have gone ahead and swapped the primary gear sets over, I counted the teeth too and sure enough they are different! We had a discussion too about the central steel bush that would need modifying/remaking and I went ahead with that as well. :)
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
'It must be a .....'
Posts: 365
Joined: 12 Sep 2010 12:25

Re: camel gearing

Post by 'It must be a .....' »

Hi Steve, yes I suggested that fitting 350 primary gears could be a way of lowering the gearing of your 500 5 speed engine and perhaps much easier and cheaper than sourcing a 6 speed box and taking the engine apart to swap them over. I think the flywheel mass of the large primary gears are also different between the 500 and 350?
I didn't know you had gone ahead with the idea, well done, was the bush mod straight forward to do and what difference has it made to the characteristics of the engine/bike?

Always lots of possibilities with the Moto Morini Mix and Match :wink:
Steve Brown
Posts: 1390
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
Location: Leicestershire

Re: camel gearing

Post by Steve Brown »

Yes I did it all a few months back. The bush was easy for me as there is a place near me that does precision grinding at reasonable cost. Having discussed it with them I had the outer of a 500W bush ground to suit the 350/6 speed driven primary gear. They also agreed it is as easy for them to grind the inner diameter of a 350/6 speed bush if I ever did similar again.
The result is still not as low as it would be with a 6 speed gearbox but still a useful improvement. I do have a spare 6 speed cluster but not enough justification to split the cases yet. According to some people though it will self destruct soon enough so I'll do it then. Maybe.

I'm thinking of a project for riding in my dotage now... Drum brake, wire wheel Strada bike with a soft cam 350 or 500 and 5 speeds, plus a front mounted electric starter. I need to get the parts in ready.
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
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