Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Camel, Sahara, Kanguro, Coguaro

Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 07 Feb 2020 12:06

I'm trying to obtain some cables for an incomplete drum braked Kanguro, which I believe is simply the Kanguro X.

I have found and downloaded the parts manual for the newer Kanguro X 2 and assume that the speedo and tacho cables would be the same, I expect the front brake cable is particular to this model (and perhaps a drum braked Moto Morini Camel?).

I've tried Venhill Cables and even called them. They suggested one of their universal clutch cable kits might be suitable for making a front brake cable which I'm OK with doing. I'm guessing a tacho cable from most models would be adequate for the Kanguro X and have found several on Mdina's web site, only one with a length specified though (important as a tacho cable might work as a speedo cable and I reckon I'll need about 105cm or longer for the speedo cable to reach comfortably).

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions and recommendations for these cables. Ideally I'd like to buy correct, pre-made cables. I'm willing to adapt cables, I've plenty of work to do to restore this bike and the cables are fairly straight-forward I hope compared to freeing up the front cylinder where the rings seem to have rusted to the coated barrel lining, and I need to make side and perhaps a center stand, replace cut, damaged and missing wiring, etc. etc.

PS: I dearly miss being able to call Rob at NLM who'd probably track down whatever I need in minutes and have them with me the next day.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby Steve Brown » 07 Feb 2020 17:49

Hi Julian, I think you'd be best making your own, possibly using one of the universal kits. I am also in the process of fettling an X and could perhaps measure the fitted cable if that helps?
I think you're probably right regarding the speedo and tacho cables-but that is just a guess too!
Did you buy the Kanguro from Redvee perhaps? I was sorely tempted by that but managed to resist, only just! I ended up buying an X1 which is now back on the road and then an X (the model I really wanted) turned up. Like buses, I am now waiting for the third one to arrive. :)
We may be able to trade the odd item for these too maybe?

Edit-Yes, Rob is missed here too.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 07 Feb 2020 22:21

Steve,
so was it you that bought the one on eBay last week and this? I hope so as it did look in fairly good condition and it'd be great if it's going to be ridden and fettled.

And yes it was redvee's bike. I looked at several Kanguros including an immaculate incomplete X3 and decided that I really prefer the look and riding potential of the original model evne though it's likely to work out more expensive than buying the X3 given the condition of her bike which she'd bought for spares over a decade ago and didn't have the heart to break.

BTW I successfully completed the NOVA process online, almost by accident as the form originally refused to let me enter a UK purchase address. When I tried a week later it somehow worked - good as - despite promises the person at the VAT online service who'd promised to email or post me the offline version of the form didn't get one to me. Once I get this bike back in working order I'll need to MoT it using the frame number I believe in order to request a UK registration. I do have an age letter from Stuart Meyhew who still does them. Let's see how long this effort takes me, even with lots of general Morini spares, the Kanguro has enough unusual parts to mean I'm having to make and procure lots of parts.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby Steve Brown » 08 Feb 2020 20:14

Congratulations with the NOVA result. It can be a bit of a hit and miss thing and everyone I speak to about it has a different experience. I've done it twice now and the palava was hilarious. Well it is looking back anyway. Both times they made me jump through different hoops for the same jobs. The first one took ages as they 'lost/never received' the forms. Then when I re-submitted they replied and issued the V5 etc but using the original application. I had cancelled the cheques for that and they went and cashed them! The second one was relatively plain sailing.

Yes, it was me that bought the red one on ebay. It was only 10 miles from here and starting to dissolve in a damp leaky shed. He advertised it as 'excellently maintained'-well it had been by the previous owner (Derek Wright from this very forum!) but certainly not by the seller. If Derek had seen the state of it when I collected it he may well have cried! It seems I saved it just in time.
Keep us informed of your progress with making things, I can lend you cables to copy if you like-mine seem pretty original. I would suggest TJ cables or someone other than Venhill though. :wink:
Regarding side stands, is yours the frame mounted type or the swing arm mounted? Mine is the latter but I know the chap who I helped with his Kanguro needs the frame type.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 09 Apr 2020 19:57

Steve,
you'd asked for updates on how I'm getting on, so here goes:
  • Mdina had the front brake cable in stock I discovered. It doesn't actually want to thread into the threaded nodule on the drum brake arm, however, it probably will do so once I've cleaned up the threads. I've yet to find a Kanguro front brake lever, I bought an inexpensive pair of levers of ebay which should be good enough for the bike to pass the MoT, I'll keep searching for a better replacement.
  • I've ended up removing the engine and after several months of trying managed to remove the clutch springs (by making a special angled 9mm open-ended spanner to hold the shaft of a spinning clutch stud). I'll either try glueing or TIG brazing the rear of the stud in place.
  • I was given a barrel and piston which is good as the front barrel was seized extremely solidly and both the piston and barrel had corrosion welded themselves together. I finally managed to get the piston to move after trying the many recommended fluids, techniques, etc. Eventually, it started moving after weeks of trying, I used a cut branch from a cherry tree or similar to act as a wooden punch.
  • I managed to get the Coguaro 501 centre stand to fit, only possible as the bolt holes had worn very oval and were sufficiently sloppy for the bolt to just go through. I've plans to make a better pivot with more surface area and sealed ball bearings. I'll write that up separately if/when I get that made and tested.
  • The swinging arm's pivot seems to be seized to the swing-arm shaft. I've tried plusgas oil, etc. I also tried making a capped nut to use on the right-hand side as a pseudo bolt head, however my first attempt has failed - the threads stripped out of the nut I used (the one that was on the RHS which came with the bike). I'm waiting for some deeper stainless steel nuts to arrive and will try something similar. Meanwhile, I've fitted an angled grease nipple and pumped grease into the centre of the pivot area of the shaft. I doubt this will do the trick, however, at least the swinging arm pivots a bit easier (albeit the shaft is turning as the swingarm goes up and down). I might decide to bite the bullet and get a replacement swinging arm, bushes and bolt (mdina have these, the bushes are available NOS on ebay in Italy). For now, I'll keep exercising it and see what happens especially once I've managed to weld up a nut (I weld a washer on top of it e.g. an M6 by about 16mm diameter) which is intended to cap the head of the swingarm bolt and act as a defacto bolt head once it's fully tightened.
  • I'm planning to convert the stator and electrics to full 12v and use a small sealed battery. I'll probably replace the moulded battery box inner side panel once I've a better idea of the dimensions of the battery I'll actually use. I'll end up replacing some, perhaps most of the wiring.
  • I've a choice of speedos: either a standard KPH set or the digital trailtech Vapor that was on my previous Kanguro (X3) which went to Martin Gelder and then the current owner who refitted standard instruments. He kindly gave me it and some of the wiring. I've a new mount and bought the rest of the wiring for it.
  • One of the forum members kindly offered some bits and pieces including rear light, rear indicators, and is making a replacement seat cover using some offcuts he has available. I've the option to fit a fancy rounded oblong LED headlight, sent by mistake by a supplier who let me keep it, however, it's larger than the standard headlight and also needs mounts making.
  • I was given a pair of nearly new tyres which I've fitted with new inner tubes, etc.
  • I've several transducers, but have a red pickup rather than the black ones I think Kanguros are intended to use. I see Mdina have plack pickups listed for £100 + VAT etc. Quite expensive but perhaps the best option?
  • I've bought and obtained various bits and pieces e.g. the nut that drives the cable tacho.
  • I still need to decide what to do about a side stand. The mount on the swingarm is badly damaged, e.g. it's split down both sides of the front section which is also kinked through previous wear. I'd be happy TIG welding it however it's hard to reach to clean or weld while the swingarm is in the frame, however, unless I'm able to get the pivot bolt out I can't remove it to weld it more easily. I'm fine with making a replacement side stand if I find a way to repair the pivot area on the swingarm. I also looked at the bolt-on side stand article on https://kanguro350.blogspot.com

I'm reminded of just how many things need sorting out when resurrecting an incomplete bike that's stood for over a decade. New parts for everything that's worn, damaged, missing, etc. is both impractical and not cost-effective. Even buying as many as practical of the necessary parts as used would still result in a bike that costs way more than it'd sell for.

My goal is still to get the bike running and roadworthy, ideally using its original engine once I've rebuilt it. I've still got an unknown quality K series engine as a backup option too. The stay-home policy and everything else affected by COVID-19 currently means it's hard to predict the timing or outcome yet. If I could get various parts painted professionally (e.g. the centre stand, engine plates, swingarm, etc. I'd be happy to do so even though it'd add to the costs. I'm guessing that the place I use (in Windsor) will be closed as part of the lock-down, and anyway driving there may contravene the lockdown rules...
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 09 Apr 2020 20:10

I forgot to mention that one of the carbs was so full of white semi powdery gunge that it's been impossible to clean sufficiently to consider using it. Also, some of the aluminium seems to have been eaten away around the choke jet - possibly feeding or becoming whatever the white gunge is/was. Thankfully I've lots of old carbs for 350's so should manage to find a suitable replacement for that one.

The other cleaned up adequately in a 2.6L ultrasound bath after lots of goes and some cleaning with carb cleaner, toothbrush, etc.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby Cosmo » 10 Apr 2020 15:40

Wow! I thought I'd had to do a fair bit of work to mine. I now see why you were asking about pattern parts. I'm sure if you get the mechanical parts prioritised, the cosmetics will be ok. If you go for a non-standard enduro look it shouldn't be too expensive. I didn't spend much on mine, mainly my time, but with cheap replacement plastics, it's transformed.
You have your work cut out, so good luck.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby Ming » 11 Apr 2020 06:48

Cosmo wrote:...If you go for a non-standard enduro look it shouldn't be too expensive.....

Thinking back a bit, there was a picture of a Yamaha XT styled Kanguro which looked very pretty, might provide a bit of inspiration?
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 11 Apr 2020 13:12

Ming, you're right, it's gorgeous and actually Cosmo's :) who replied to this topic recently Here's the forum post with his photos http://www.morini-riders-club.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5418
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 11 Apr 2020 13:16

Some positive signs of movement for the swingarm, it now pivots around the central shaft. Pumping in grease seems to have helped free it a bit. I can't yet remove the shaft; however, that's less vital than having it function at all. I'm exercising it in the hope it'll eventually free up sufficiently. And once I finally receive my deep stainless steel nuts I'll have another go at trying to remove the pivot shaft.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby Steve Brown » 11 Apr 2020 18:30

[quote="julianharty"]Steve,
you'd asked for updates on how I'm getting on, so here goes:
  • Mdina had the front brake cable in stock I discovered. It doesn't actually want to thread into the threaded nodule on the drum brake arm, however,
    The thread on the original adjuster is a very fine one and all the pattern cable I see are the wrong thread! Very close but not the same pitch.

    *]The swinging arm's pivot seems to be seized to the swing-arm shaft.
    Mine was too. When trying to screw it out of the frame thread on the R/H side it would go so far then jam up. It turned out to be the thrust washers which were dropping behind the worn lip on the pivot shaft. If you end up cutting yours to get it out I have two spare swing arms. You're welcome to them F.O.C as I'll never use them. They both need work but well within your capabilities!
  • I've a choice of speedos: either a standard KPH set or the digital trailtech Vapor
    I'd go for the TT Vapor! Much neater and get's rid of a few cables and some wiring too.[/color]
  • I've several transducers, but have a red pickup rather than the black ones I think Kanguros are intended to use.
    If you want I do have a black pick up but don't know if it works yet or if it has the correct rotor. Looks ok though. Remember that Mdina won't want to take back electronic bits. At a £100 I'd need to be sure, you can test mine if you like then buy it (less than £100 :wink: )
  • I still need to decide what to do about a side stand. The mount on the swingarm is badly damaged, e.g. it's split down both sides of the front section which is also kinked through previous wear. I'd be happy TIG welding it however it's hard to reach to clean or weld while the swingarm is in the frame, however, unless I'm able to get the pivot bolt out I can't remove it to weld it more easily. I'm fine with making a replacement side stand if I find a way to repair the pivot area on the swingarm. I also looked at the bolt-on side stand article on https://kanguro350.blogspot.com
See my offer above of a swing arm already loose and needing the same work as yours does.

I'm reminded of just how many things need sorting out when resurrecting an incomplete bike that's stood for over a decade. New parts for everything that's worn, damaged, missing, etc. is both impractical and not cost-effective. Even buying as many as practical of the necessary parts as used would still result in a bike that costs way more than it'd sell for.
Tell me about that! I have promised myself not to do this again for the reasons you give. It's satisfying to rescue a bike but having done that a good number of times now I'm beginning to realise I'm a mug/sucker for old bangers. I'm not getting younger and want to do more riding while I can. I have two other complete projects to do (one is another Morini) and my Scott has been waiting for an engine overhaul for too long.
My goal is still to get the bike running and roadworthy,
Same here, someone else can restore it to 'original' in the future. Or maybe I will...
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby Steve Brown » 11 Apr 2020 18:34

Hi Julian, sorry the delayed reply. I tried above to answer your post with my replies in blue. It hasn't turned out too well so read it carefully as my replies are not all in blue! And some of it looks a bit mixed up with your post, rather than my usual just generally mixed up. :?
Anyway, I have spare swing arms for the X and a black pick up for you to try too.
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 12 Apr 2020 09:20

Steve,
Your inline comments were generally easy to see in blue, one remained in black, nonetheless 'twas easy to find, so no worries about the formatting.

In terms of your kind offer of swingarm FOC and black pickup (at a price TBA) that sounds good. If you're up for posting me the pickup during the lockdown malarky that'd be great, at some point fairly soon I'm going to reassemble the engine and fit it in the frame, etc. be great to hear it run and see if I should be doing the engine bearings (currently I'm leaving well alone).

For the swingarm, I'm awaiting the stainless nuts to see if I can remove the pivot (or not). The pivot's slowly screwing itself further into the RHS as I exercise the swingarm up and down - the oddly designed LH nut isn't really very useful when it comes to trying to entice the reluctant pivot out. I *could* have a go at cutting flats into the end of the RHS of the pivot but doubt I'd manage to do so in a way that'd provide a secure surface that allowed enough torque to actually get the pivot freed up enough for the LH nut to then spin out the rest of the way...

Ah, these old bikes, who'd be mad enough to try and resurrect them? Oh hang on... sigh, it's me and thee :) (and perhaps various others with - I hope - bikes in much more complete and better condition).
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby Steve Brown » 12 Apr 2020 17:42

Julian PM me your postal address and I'll get it sent to you when my isolation period ends. I'll check the rotor is the correct one in the meantime.
About your swing arm pivot bolt/shaft-is it the original? I ask as they were normally a fixed nut on the left end, welded in place and of course threaded into the frame on the right hand side. If yours turns inside the swing arm now, even reluctantly, it should unscrew from the left side.
Good luck with it, you'll beat it soon!
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Re: Recommendations for buying cables for the Kanguro X

Postby julianharty » 12 Apr 2020 20:10

Steve, I'll PM you my post address. And I'll also let you know if I'm driving north I'll explain in the PM in case I can collect the bits and pieces instead of you posting them.

For the swingarm bolt, I get the impression it might be newer than the bike as there's no rust on it and the RHS has signs it was sawn off (at least it's got a rough finish). On the LHS it's got a fairly thin nut (say 6mm deep) which is held on seemingly by a dished out rim that seems to be part of the main through bolt. That dished out rim seems to be suffering when I try to undo the LH nut in the hope it'll turn the main shaft (which doesn't want to turn at all when I undo the LH nut). The main bolt tightens in the frame (rotates clockwise when looking at the LHS) when the LH nut is tight and I move the swingarm down. I could weld the LH nut to the shaft but am reluctant to do so as that might complicate reuse of the bolt if it's in good enough condition once I finally manage to remove it.

Out of interest, what's the wiring connector from the pickups to the wiring loom please? i.e. what type of connector? I've the parts manual and can't work out what the connector should be. On the incomplete wiring loom I get the impression that a 4 pin inline connector might be used but that makes little sense to me. As I may end up creating most of a fresh wiring loom for the bike (as I'll convert it to pure 12V) it's not a big deal, more planning ahead for if/ when I actually ride the bike through deep water...
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