Starting problems

[pedro]

Hi Morini folk, I am a newish member and a first time Morini owner who was lucky (I think) enough to come across a very nice 1979 3 1/2 sporterized Strada fitted with a later 501 motor, the bike is lovely to look at and lovely to ride but despite 45 years of experience starting all manner of bikes, this thing is proving a pig to start, I bought it as having starting problems so the first thing I did was to run it up to Alex at NLM who put the latest ignition on it and pronounced it sound. I still could not start it so took it back, Alex started it first kick much to my amazement, he went over it a second time and could start it first kick most times, I accept that the problem is me, but despite persevering starting is very much hit and miss. It has a newly built and very tight motor, but even hot I am still having problems. Has anyone out there any tips which may help me, as it is I am in dread of stalling it or even using it seriously, I hesitate to use a filling station unless its on top of a hill (not easy to find) Help please. Pedro.

[morini500dave]

Hi Pedro.
I'm not as familiar with the 350 as my 500,so can I ask! has your bike also got electric start.also are you attempting to start your bike by kick start, sitting astride it using your left leg or standing on it's left side using you right leg.and another thing are you right or left handed?All of these things may have an influence on how your(Morini) starting goes assuming all other conciderations are,ie carbs ignition.Personally I stand on the left using my right leg and most times She will start! Over time your technic should develop.

Hope this helps
Regards Dave.

[EVguru]

The Morini ignition is capacitive discharge and the high voltage needed for the coils (up to about 400 volt) is generated from a dedicated coil on the alternator. The engine needs to be turning over fast enough, or it won't start. That's one of the reasons that the original electric starts have such a poor reputation. They'll crank just fine, but just not quite fast enough to start (fit an Odyssey).

A long swinging kick is not going to do the job!

You need a short firm stab. I usually get best results with the throttle slides just barely lifted off their stops. Did Alex check your alternator rotor? They often loose some of their magnetism and even if it doesn't affect running in other ways, it does raise the speed at which you need to spin the engine over for starting.

[pedro]

Thanks fellahs, firstly, no the bike does not have lecky start, secondly I am right handed/footed and attempt to start the bike from the left with right foot, I must admit to being a Velocette enthusiast (as well as more modern tackle) so the long swinging kick might have a bearing,want your Thruxton started first kick? I'm your man. There is a fair bit of compression so I usually ease it over (twice) then try a stab, might work, usually doesn't. The rotor magnetism is a thought though, I'm not sure if Alex checked it but he was well aware of my problem so I would think he did, I think the problem is mine and am hoping I gain the technique but it's a long time coming. I have never had this kind of problem before and love the Morini to bits once its going. I think I need another Morini owner to give me lessons, I live down in Kent. I have spoken on the phone to you Paul and you are unfailingly helpful. I suppose what I really want to know is this, is starting usually such a black art, do I need a magic leg? or am I doomed to only stopping on top of hills. Pete.

[Emmohaswheelsagain]

HI Pete,

Paul is right you need a short sharpe explosive stab. I've always stood at the side of my bikes and used my right leg and yes it can be a dark art. Often as you get older (not that you are Pete) starting for some can be more difficult. I have started bikes for senior members before, when they have run out of puff. Nothing shameful about this Morini's are an acquired art. You can of course go for the electric option and i'm sure NLM would be able to help you there. Better still come up to our Track day on 17th June and stay over for the weekend events at The Waggon & Horses. I'm sure there will be time to give you tips on starting rountines. Mine works first attempt 95% of the time and if I get fed up with old fashioned kick starts I jusd take out the 9 1/2 and rely completely on modern electronics.
No kicking them so you make sure that your battery is always 100%.


Safe Riding

Paul E

[EVguru]

I had a bit of a think about just how I go about starting my 350.

Try getting it onto compression, letting the lever return to the top and then giving it a good kick. It's not going to kick back on you!

I nearly always start the bike sitting astride and kicking left footed. If I'm standing along side, I'll still mostly use my left leg.

I must admnit I had a little more trouble starting my 500 Sei, but I was sorting out carburation and ignition problems at the time. Then I sorted the electric start and given that the kickstart lever is rather wobbly and prone to jaming under, I just use the button.

[MarkB]

Is it worth mentioning the choke? Generally 350s prefer just one choke lever to be lifted and mine needs the throttle open barely at all. But I've never used a 500....

[peterc]

Pete, Whereabouts in Kent are you? I'm in Rochester & be happy to get together if you think it might help. My 501 Camel is probably the most fussy starter of the 3 Morini's I've owned - probably due to needing some valve work, but the technique described above by Paul and is spot on.
Peter

[pedro]

Thanks for all your help. Peterc, I am in Tonbridge, I could no doubt have a rideout to Rochester at some point for some lessons, alternatively, I have entered for Cadwell (a 62 year old track day virgin) for a laugh, and hopefully will meet up with some tutors there, the only thing is that I would like to get some miles on the wee beastie beforehand. Email is prmorgan@postmaster.co.uk

[72degrees]

An older (bus pass holding) member writes.

These days I always start mine (375, L5 cam and PHBH 28 carbs) standing on the left with my right foot. Used to be able to do it with the left sitting astride the bike years ago.

Much easier since I had the rotor re-magnetised, stator rewound, new HT leads and caps plus NLM coil/transducer pack (still on an OEM red pickup). Also EVX plugs do make enough of a difference to justify the extra cost in my eperience. Seems to prefer the choke on just the front cylinder to start, but the odd flick up of the toggle on the rear carb as it warms up.

[peterc]

Re the EVX spark plugs, 72 Degrees, I had a read up and NGK seem to be saying that the fine wire plugs will fire easier, under less than optimal situations- sounds good to me, but are there any down sides to using them in terms of plug life for example?
Pete - Cadwell is a great plan, I will only be going to the rally I think, as I don't like being overtaken all day! but anyway you will find lots of helpful folk around, most of whom are well into their 60's

[alan j]

Hi, Pedro, I am coming down to the "Pioneer run" on Sunday on my 500-if We "bump " into each other we can practice "kicking" together!! Alan J. [aged 103]

[pedro]

What a great bunch you lot are, thanks for all your help, I've been out in the garage practising explosive kicks !!! no more joy than before, just how many ways can there be to kick a motorcycle, I've come very close to kicking it up the exhaust but I dont somehow think it would help. I know it can be done because I have seen it with my own eyes, I am hoping to get down on the pioneer run but I've got to go to Kempton Saturday to find some bits for my latest Velo project, not sure if I will get a two day pass without risking marital disharmony, I usually have a stop in Handcross so if anyone sees a fellow Morini rider (or pusher) come and say hello and show me where I'm going wrong. Pete.

[72degrees]

The EVX plugs are also supposed to last longer than standard items. I certainly had a pair of EVs in mine for years. I suspect that they would still be OK with all the new ignition components I have now but it seemed silly not to change them after getting the sparks department otherwise tip-top.

See you at Cadwell, I'm not a track day virgin (I was at the first MRC Cadwell day) but it's been a few years since I took a Morini round. Last Cadwell outing was on my Gilera GFR 125 which I will be bringing along in June as well as the 2C/375.

[corsaro chris]

Pedro...

Starting a Morini is a very different technique from starting a Velo. A couple of points first;

Switch on - does the petrol tap clunk loudly? It should still have an electronic tap, and it should throw with a positive clunk. If not, switch on the reserve as well.

As Mark suggests, one choke on (most use the front, or right switch). Use two only if it's really, really cold.

Kick the engine over a couple of times - this is to draw the fuel in to the cylinder (very much like on the Velo).

Find compression (you'll know that bit from the Velo...) and then, as the Peters have it, give it a sharp kick. Don't open the throttle - the choke should ensure that the engine fires and runs at 2,000 rpm and some! If not successful, try again, going through just the sharp kick stage.

As Paul says, if it's not working the first thing to check is the spark - it should be fat with the plug resting on the cylinder head. If it's not, that could be a problem but if NLM have looked at it and Alex could start it I would suggest it is just going to be a case of practice!

By the by, I've just done the reverse - having to remember how to start a Velocette after 35 years ~ so I know the difference between the two!

And a belated 'Welcome' to the Club / Forum; let us know how you get on!

CC