Idiot lights

[hphilbo]

Hi, basic question I know but how are these re-lamped. I have a 76 sport with the three small round lights that appear to be retained by knurled aluminium rings. As items such as these are fragile and probably irreplaceable I’m reluctant to apply much force. Amazingly the high beam one is working but the bulbs need replacing in the others.
Regards,
Phil

[Steve Brown]

It's a long time since my bike had those, they break easily and are hard to find so take care! I think though, the bulb and it's holder are pushed in from underneath. Can't recall what bulb either but they will be available and possibly as LED replacements too.
If you have 3 to spare I'm interested!

[nickst4]

Replacing incandescent bulbs with LEDs in idiot lights can be tricky. The extra brightness is generally welcome but LEDs can glow dimly if there is a tiny current that reaches them despite the function they indicate being inoperative. That has certainly happened for me on a neutral light and a fuel-low light. Needless to say, the polarity of the circuit is also important for LEDs.

[Steve Brown]

Replacing incandescent bulbs with LEDs in idiot lights can be tricky. The extra brightness is generally welcome but LEDs can glow dimly if there is a tiny current that reaches them despite the function they indicate being inoperative. That has certainly happened for me on a neutral light and a fuel-low light. Needless to say, the polarity of the circuit is also important for LEDs.

Quite right, and actually I found LED too bright for a Main beam warning as it was very distracting at night! Brighter almost than the main beam Other than that fine.

[Ming]

[quote="Steve Brown"]... I think though, the bulb and it's holder are pushed in from underneath. Can't recall what bulb either but they will be available and possibly as LED replacements too. [quote="Steve Brown"]
IIRC they are a small wedge bulb, and the holder pulls out from underneath. Quite easy to replace with LEDs, though they can be bright, as said. It is possible to add a small resistor to each to limit current though.

[3potjohn]

I tried LED instrument lights. I returned the main beam idiot light to the original for that same reason. Too bright.
The one I would like to do is an indicator bulb but too much faff with polarity issues. One fine day I am going to replace the ones on the Coguaro on which there are an indecent amount but so fiddly to get to. I’d have to be stuck, bored with no bike riding to do before I attempt it.........oh wait a minute......
Some of the bulb holders on my K Sport had a tendency to drop out over bumps but have had a severe talking to.
John

[nickst4]

Apart from a predilection for LED headlights which has got me into hot water here before, a favourite use of LEDs is for the indicator warning light. Indicators left on is a major problem in bike safety to my mind, but the warning lights are usually feeble and almost always out of sight when looking straight-ahead.

Every bike I acquire gets the treatment, with one or more 5mm LEDs mounted as high as possible in a neat little mount so as to be visible within my field of view. I tried green as per convention, but found that red catches my eye much better, and the beauty of such a passive system is that your eye and brain register the function from the moment the indicators go on, even when wearing a helmet that would silence a beeper. You just can't ignore it. Timed warning lights and/or a beeper are quite unnecessary in my view and can be pretty irritating: I tried that system and felt there ought to be a better solution.

Apart from making a mount for the single LED to fit it high on the console or beneath any screen, the other complication is polarity and taking a feed from both indicators without interference. Fortunately, some kind person in the past provided a little schematic incorporating two extra conventional diodes in parallel, and once the little assembly is made, I simply push the tinned cable-ends into the indicator connectors because so little current is needed. That makes it all very easily detachable and there is no need to mess around with the interior of instrument panels or the original idiot light. Trying to piggy-back an LED on the original idiot light is tricky, as one soon discovers that the polarity reverses depending on which signals are in use and LEDs don't like that. Of course, you can go for handed LED idiot lights to cope with that issue and that even tells you which indicators are functioning, but it's a bit OTT.

If anyone is interested, I can post pics of the circuitry and components required.

Nick

[3potjohn]

I would be interested in the indicator LED information. I would probably also try something like it on my old beemer too.
John

[robint]

If you change the flasher relay to an electronic one ( a few £ delivered from the Far East) that sends a regular 12V pulse to the indicator switch continuously as a feed then there is no polarity change issue involved and any LED tell tales (a few less ££ from the Far East) can be used. Have fitted them (choose your colour as well as arrows or not - I have arrows.....) inside the cockpit fairing on my 1978 Sport and work well. Can be seen as two small mounds on the binnacle beyond the clock.

[norbert]

LEDs as idiot lights use to be too bright.
I had the great luck that a friend of mine a real electronis specialist built me all the electronis for Dulcinea. All lights except the main light are LEDs and he incorported a sensor that regulates the brightnes of the idiot lights, diming them acording to the conditions (bright in sunlight, dimmed down entering ... a tunel) as well as a potenciometer to regulate the light of the clocks, incredible. I have the three old idiot lights but with colorless lenses and two color LEDs so I have light/highbeam, warning of less than 12V/oilpressure and ignition/indicators.

Of course I have to be aware not to damage the headlight. Looking at the pictures you will understand. I know that this won´t help much, but it shows the posibility of what you can do, if you can do. All the central electronic is in the headlight. We drilled 10 holes in it to pass the wires

k-DSCI0191.JPG (142.26 KiB) Viewed 8218 times

k-DSCI0141.JPG (64.98 KiB) Viewed 8218 times

backside

k-DSCI0142.JPG (72.87 KiB) Viewed 8218 times

Of course he had to order the circuit boards acording to his design (another one for the regulator/rectifier) and for soldering the components on the backside you need laboratory conditions and a very calm hand The regulator aparts the light circuit from the battery (main light only with running motor) so I come along with a very small 2 Ah batery that fits together with the regulater in the tank tunel. All the switches only use control currents. This is a quite expensive high end electronic instalation. Although I didn´t pay his work (and apart of all the work, he came up to Lübeck to install all the wiring), only for the boards and components I could have bought a rat spare 3 1/2. But as Dulcinea was and will be the main object of all my motocycle life I decided to do the test pilot for this system. And it works well since 2017 and 23.000km

It is easier trying to drill the plastic of the colored idiot ligts a bit, so that the original bulbs will be a bit brighter

[norbert]

k-DSCI0131.JPG (58.74 KiB) Viewed 8212 times

Strongly modified original old Hella barendindicators

k-DSCI0115.JPG (129.16 KiB) Viewed 8212 times

[Steve Brown]

I think a HUD visor is the way to go. Apart from when you open it that is.

[nickst4]

Well, I certainly can't compete with Norbert's amazing electrickery, but here are the wiring details of the additional indicator warning LED I mentioned. The LEDs themselves are 5mm 12V red ones with integral resistors and the additional diodes are basic 50V 1A type, both easily findable on ebay/uk. All it needs is a bit of soldering and heat-shrink, plus sleeving for neatness, and the necessary mount that suits the installation. In this case, a little mount made with a bit of tubing from a car aerial and bendy stainless sheet to enable the LED to be focussed right at me:

To be honest, the Scrambler is one bike that hardly needs this mod because the OEM indicator warning light is bright and positioned pretty well, but I had a spare rig so fitted my red version nonetheless.

Resized pics in the post below

Hope this is of interest,

Nick

[nickst4]

Hmmm, sorry about that. The pics were too big and this site didn't allow them to be moved around.

I'll try again:

[P&S]

I to went through the same considerations.
LED idiot lights are too strong, but not for indicators idiot lights.
I made an attachment with diodes and an extra earth.

Moreover I added an extra blinker in front of my eyes and finally now I remember to switch off indicators.

Spare idiot lights of the first kind can still be found, serch for " spie Moto Guzzi"