Ignition starting problem

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Ignition starting problem

Postby cliveo » 29 Jun 2020 19:11

Hi
I'm a new member to the morini riders club and the new owner of a 1980 350 sport imported from Spain and registered on a V plate, when the bike was delivered it started first or second kick and was taken out on it maiden trip and ran fine, until the engine lost power and stopped, two kicks later started again and faded and stalled when pulling away
Since then the bike will not start and found no spark to either plug, I have checked for loose connections several times and still no joy
Can anyone help
I have looked at the circuit diagrams but to confuse things slightly it has a sachse ZDG 3.23 electronic ignition fitted feeding the coils, the manual says that the green wire from the key switch (6 pole) when the wire is disconnected should have current on it, does this mean there should be +12v on the green wire going to the other green wires connected in the fuse box area when the ignition switch is turned on as I have no voltage showing

Thanks Clive
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby huub » 29 Jun 2020 19:37

not sure at what diagram you are looking ,
but on the morini wiring i think the green wire is the stator wire , so would not be in use with the sachse ignition
unless somebody modified the wiring harness , then it is hard to predict what goes where.
for a start you should have 12 volt at the sachse ignition, that is a easy start to troubleshooting
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby cliveo » 30 Jun 2020 09:18

Hi thanks for info
I have 12v on the sashse unit and from there 12v on the two coils down to earth on both terminals on both coils and no voltage across the coils which I'm not quite sure whether that is correct or not being a coil, or should I be seeing zero volts on the negative side of the coils
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby julianharty » 30 Jun 2020 20:05

Clive,
I recommend you contact sachs, by email worked well for me. info@elektronik-sachse.de I found them to be helpful and responsive. The person I dealt with is fluent in English. I think their installation manual is on their website. I have a sachs ignition in one of my bikes which came with it when I bought it. Some of the parts are relatively inexpensive. I think there's a small LED light that lights up as the pickup is triggered when the engine (the camshaft) turns so you can also take the left hand cover off and look for the glimmer of light as you turn the engine over (with a kickstart as it's near you when you're looking at the pickup), remove the plugs and fit them into the caps with the plugs on the heads to make the engine easier to turn over.

If you're able to take photos of your ignition system and wiring and share those somehow (the forum allows you to attach low-resolution files with a bit of fiddling around). Worst case, email them to me and I'll both take a look and add a copy to this topic here. julianharty@gmail.com
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby cliveo » 01 Jul 2020 11:24

Hi Julian

Thanks for your suggestion and I will take some photos of the wiring and send them to you later today, by the way checked for light but can't see anything when engine turned over

Most appreciated
Clive
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby 97kturner » 01 Jul 2020 14:15

I have the sache ignition. Mine has a test mode, set the ignition s curve selector to 0 and pull the plugs place plugs in caps and turn key on
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby cliveo » 01 Jul 2020 15:53

Thanks for the test mode option I will try it, I assume that should produce a spark when plug is sorted against the engine
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby Exmoor beast » 01 Jul 2020 16:51

If bike ran fine, then stopped I’m wondering if it’s charging properly-as voltage drops below 12v the sparks dies .
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby 97kturner » 01 Jul 2020 18:45

The plugs need to be grounded and should spark continuously. And you will need 12 volts
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby cliveo » 01 Jul 2020 19:10

Thanks all for further advice I have 12.8 volts on the battery and still no spark when plug grounded and Sachse set to zero which I believe is the test mode as described
I'm baffled as don't know if the problem is with the PVL coils or the Sachse unit
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby Exmoor beast » 02 Jul 2020 17:18

Check your voltage ignition on at the coils, you can get significant voltage drop with resistance in ignition switch/kill switch etc, check all earths, block connectors.These things are rarely component failure more likely something working lose / bad connector. Fresh head and cup of tea.
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby julianharty » 10 Jul 2020 19:32

According to the Sachs documentation/manual (freely available on their website) the ignition unit should function even with a much lower voltage (around 8v being the minimum their unit accepts, if I remember correctly).
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby cliveo » 21 Jul 2020 13:19

Hi All

thanks for all your help and advice which allowed me to track the problem to the Sachse unit not sparking when in test mode, sent unit back to Mdina Italia and Andrew kindly replaced it under warrenty

The bike now starts first kick every time, he did however suggest I checked the regulator charging voltage to make sure it was not to high as could have caused the unit to fail

I'm getting battery voltage of 12.6v and a charging voltage of 14.5v at 5000rpm when running, would anyone know if this is excessive as don't want to damage the Sachse again
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby julianharty » 21 Jul 2020 17:43

Probably wise to ask the manufacturer, I've checked the manual https://www.elektronik-sachse.de/shopsystem-3/en/digital-ignition-zdg-3-23-for-morini-350.html and they only mention a minimum voltage (of at least 7.5V at all times).
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Re: Ignition starting problem

Postby cliveo » 21 Jul 2020 18:44

Thanks Julian
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